Patti LuPone Singing Evita

[Gothampc]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 9:24pm

It's been mentioned by Patti LuPone that early in the run of Evita she was not singing the score correctly and that she received help from a chorus member.

Based on the OBC, does anyone know which sections she wasn't singing correctly? And I'm curious, what do you think she was doing wrong?

I would imagine someone with her training from Juilliard would have learned things like breath control and how to properly use and care for the voice.

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 9:32pm

Patti was in the very first class in the new acting school in Juilliard. She wasn't a voice major or music major. She may have studied voice there, but that wasn't her primary training. She was there for theatre.

I don't know what she was singing correctly or not. Patti tended (back then) to work her chest voice up too high before she "mixed" it with head voice. It gave her that great "rock and roll" edge to her belt voice that few other Eva's ever had. It sounded great, but with that sort of belt, one false move and you can go hoarse right in the middle of a song. That's it, then. Not just for the rest of the show, but for the next several days. And without vocal rest, you may not recover. You can develop nodes or permanent damage if you repeat the bad technique on an ongoing basis.

Patti used to say if she could get past that very first "Screw the middle classes" passage correctly, she knew she was probably okay for the rest of that show. But it was like walking a vocal tightrope every single time.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 9:36pm

And I guess the other question is, did Elaine Paige have trouble or was she not doing what Patti was doing?

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 9:40pm

It's one of the very few cases where you can actually hear exactly what she's talking about (her trouble) on the cast recording. That recording is so raw and so complete, that you can hear that at the start of the recording she's okay, but by Rainbow High, you can actually feel her vocal chords are hanging on by a thread; you can intensely feel her exhaustion by the time Rainbow High comes round on the recording! Patti back then was not using her diaphragm or lower body muscles enough to project the sound and to SUPPORT the sound- she was belting her head off and all of the power was coming from her throat... This is what she learned to do years later... to support from her stomach and diaphragm muscles as opposed to depending 100% on her throat. She has learned a great deal of technique and you can totally hear this throughout her recent performances, especially from Sweeney Todd (concert) onwards. The way she transitions and juggles from chest to head and controls these transitions is staggeringly different to what she was doing in Evita.

[dietschweppes]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 9:48pm

Patti recorded her numbers on the Evita OBCR over several days, and what makes you think she recorded the songs in order? I think she sounds the most sure of her technique in Rainbow High.

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 9:52pm

Seriously listen to her voice when she hits the 'bow' on 'rainbow' - you can hear the voice is obviously tired... just saying. Whatever about order, her voice is clearly tired on most of that record... I still think she's the only one who can sing that score to perfection, and I'm not being negative for the sake of it - I'm just talking about her voice here! lol

[dietschweppes]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 9:56pm

Oh, I definitely hear the strain on other tracks. I just think Rainbow High is her most solid vocal performance on that recording.

Updated On: 6/19/13 at 09:56 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 9:57pm

Patti also is more of a mezzo than a soprano, which makes her have these great, meaty midrange and lower notes with a lot of richness and body. (Sounds like a hair product commercial.)

Most other Evas on Broadway were "belt sopranos." Their voices naturally sat in a higher register. Their lower notes were often thin, but they could belt those high notes for days with no real problem.

Patti's voice almost "defies gravity," which makes those high belt notes seem like they come out of nowhere. People who sing with her lower rich tone usually can't belt above a C (above middle C). That's what made her voice so thrilling. Those unexpected high notes that shouldn't have been possible.

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 10:04pm

It would be interesting (going back to another point raised in this thread) to hear of Elaine Paige's opinion on her tackling of the score... Julie Covington recorded the score first on the concept album, and her voice seems to be like concrete - nothing would break it... Her voice was once described as being 'like celery' (was it Sir Richard Eyre?) and it's true. It's this icy, cold, hard, rock solid voice that doesn't seem to wear or tear. It seems to be constantly on the one level, and doesn't shift gears as obviously as later Evas' voices did, Patti being one of them. Have never heard Paige (or Elena Roger for that matter) complain about the difficulty of the score - maybe they had received prior vocal training to know how to deal with the score?

You would think Patti would have arranged to have the score properly taught to her by a vocal instructor knowing that she was going into the show, no? I mean she said upon hearing the score for the first time she found it extremely taxing for any woman to sing... you'd think she would've over prepared vocally for it... Strange!

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 10:11pm

Elaine Paige sang the score completely differently from LuPone, though, so it might not have had as rough an effect on her voice. As for vocal training, LuPone has said in her memoir and interviews that she never really understood what voice teachers were teaching her, she'd just sort of mimic what they did without understanding the mechanics of it all.

[gavyj]

Posted: 6/19/13 at 10:44pm

"Patti's voice almost "defies gravity," which makes those high belt notes seem like they come out of nowhere. People who sing with her lower rich tone usually can't belt above a C (above middle C). That's what made her voice so thrilling. Those unexpected high notes that shouldn't have been possible."

^exactly. This is exactly right, best12bars. I haven't heard anyone else describe LuPone in Evita more accurately.

[ullabelt]

Posted: 6/20/13 at 10:21am

That's not strictly correct musicaldudepeter- she learned to sing more technically yes but if you are talking about belting in particular you do not use your diaphragm or breath support. You don't use breath when you shout, and true belting is shouting on pitch. There can be no vibrato when you are belting so in generally she is mixing. And in that case she learned more about support you are right.

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 6/20/13 at 10:24am

"if you are talking about belting in particular you do not use your diaphragm"

Rubbish.

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 6/20/13 at 10:53am

"True belting is shouting on pitch."

There are so many arguments against this, that I can't even choose one.

Everything in singing is supported 100% by your diaphragm. If not then it's not classed as singing. It's shouting. Belting is singing.

[ullabelt]

Posted: 6/20/13 at 12:29pm

You absolutely do not, if you drive air through the vocal folds whilst belting it causes more damage. Belting is shouting on pitch.

[ullabelt]

Posted: 6/20/13 at 12:29pm

You absolutely do not, if you drive air through the vocal folds whilst belting it causes more damage. Belting is shouting on pitch.

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 6/20/13 at 4:56pm

I'm sorry but you're just talking a load of bollocks.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 6/20/13 at 5:06pm

When I was in the chorus I was taught to always use my diaphragm...but I never had to belt when I was in the chorus so to that end I have no idea if you have to use your diaphragm when belting.

My vocal coach did love when I had a cold...she said it gave my voice a formidable tone that she quite liked.

Just thought I'd share that!

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 6/20/13 at 6:07pm

Before we get into a legitimate discussion about the art of belting and the science behind it (I'll give you a hint: ClapYo and Musicaldupeter are correct), ullabelt needs some background info to lay the foundation of the conversation that's about to take place. Time to go back to school! Read here. http://www.singingbelt.com/how-to-sing/diaphragm-mechanics/

[ullabelt]

Posted: 6/21/13 at 6:30am

It depends on your definition of 'belting'

We have come to use it as an umbrella term for people singing with that big, loud none 'head voice' sound.

But true belt as a technique is not used very often but generally mixed in with other voice qualities to colour a song. The idea of belting is that like a baby who can scream for hours with no vocal damage, with the right muscular support we can also produce that sound on pitch and without it being harmful. The majority of schools start with the baby analogy.

If its true belt then there is no vibrato and you don't use breath. Idina Menzel sometimes 'true belts' hence the snatched breaths you hear between phrases.

From an article on Estill technique (arguably the most popular in modern Musical Theatre)

Belting: Belting or belt quality is a complex setup combining speech quality, twang quality, a tilted cricoid cartilage and raised larynx.Twang is an important component in belt quality.nGillyanne Kayes writes, 'Belting is not harmful if you are doing it right. Jo Estill has described it as "happy yelling".'Belt quality also uses clavicular breathing and has the longest closed phase with the highest subglottic pressure and the greatest glottic resistance.

And this from Wikipedia


Estill Voice Training has been criticised for not including 'breathing' and the related abdominal support within the system, and some of the uses of anchoring for classical singing,[8][2] although Shewell cites Jo Estill as suggesting breath work as unnecessary if the Figures for Voice are well practiced.[4

Other techniques will describe the process differently hence the various arguments, however this is most 'scientific' technique, for want of a better phrase. And the technique that focuses more on the body and how to produce the sound rather than say classical singing that is about the ear and copying the sound itself.