Piazza question - *spoiler!*

[rKrispyt]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 10:03am

For those who've seen it...

I just got my OBCR, and while listening through it the past few days...I know Clara is supposed to have the mindset of a 10 or 12 year old, but...her lyrics seem rather intelligible and reading through, it doesn't seem that there's any real hint of that, or that her words are at a 10/12 year old level...especially her thoughts on Fabrizio (don't most girls have silly crushes or still think boys have cooties at that age?...not to mention the implication that they're headed for sex...wouldn't a 10/12 year old be awfully giggly about seeing a boy without his shirt off, or a boy entering her room while she's only wearing her slip?)

My question is, is this something that's expressed merely through Ms. O'Hara's interpretation and subtext, something that's not quite believeable (sp?) or something that's only mentioned but you'd never REALLY know because it's not clearly shown?

Just curious...the more I listen, the more I fear the latter, but I know everyone says it's such an amazing show that that can't be the case...just wondering how that all works. :)

Thanks! :)

[vidaxeternal]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 10:12am

I was really curious about that too. When I saw the show, i found it really interesting that Clara knew exactly what to do with the whole Fabrizio situation. I guess she's got the mental capacity of a 10-12 year old girl, but the physical/hormonal capacity of a woman her true age. But does that mean that as long as you're attracted to somebody, you don't really need to "know" what to do, and that our quote-unquote animal instincts just take over? I'm thinking way too far into this...i didn't even like the show.
Updated On: 6/21/05 at 10:12 AM

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 10:59am

I understood from the dialogue that because of Clara's accident, her mental maturation process would slow down, not stop at ten or twelve. She is an adult woman who sees the world through slightly more naive eyes, as a younger girl/woman might - but still has the same biological urges as any 26 year old would. She's very child-like on stage - as when she asks the old man "how old are you?" - right out of the blue - like a little girl would - but she still seems able cope as someone becoming an adult would - cautiously, (or the reverse - running headlong into a situation without considering the consequences).
She's a complicated character and, I must say, Kelli O'Hara does a wonderful job portraying her.

[LittleFish8386]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 11:11am

*Maybe spoilers*

I have to say that there were a couple of directorial choices in Piazza that really negated what Margaret (and Clara) had already set up as Clara's charactertistics. In the beginning, its very clear that Clara processes things like a 10 year old would. I don't see her "loving" Fabrizio in an adult way (well at least not until the end), as much as she just wants a friend, someone to talk to. I think this goes completely downhill in the Say it Somehow scene. This was one of the only places I found Bartlett's direction to suck.

It is completely understandable that she would invite Fabrizio into her room. They are talking! Slumber party! She even says her mother won't mind. At this point I don't think sex is on her mind. Asking him to marry her is another example of immaturity. How many times when you were young did you announce your plan to marry this neighbor or this friend. The whole concept of a white barbie doll wedding is very tempting for a young girl. But then she is taking his shirt off. This DOES NOT match the aforementioned characteristics and the lengths to which the entire first act has set up for us. If anything, she should be completely nervous and confused by this. He should have started to take his shirt off. Maybe there is something else hidden underneath the surface, but I really think this was the moment I had the most trouble believing in the reality of the show.


Anyone else...?

Updated On: 6/21/05 at 11:11 AM

[mabel]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 11:19am

When I saw it, I was sitting on the far right, so all I could see in that scene was Matthew Morrison's back...couldn't really see/tell who was doing what on the other side, but your comments/qualms make sense. It could have easily been approached differently and been more appropriate, effective, true to the story, etc.

[melissa errico fan]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 11:24am

Some of the language is a bit advanced, but some of it seems to fit perfectly with the mind-set. What 26-year-old women would exclaim, "It's a completely naked statue!"?

[Thenardier]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 11:27am

People bash this lyric, but I think it really highlights the attitude.

At the beginning, Clara screams out, "We're on vacation!" It sounds silly on the CR, but in the show, she runs up to some stranger and says it.

That's such a little child thing to do.

Posted: 6/21/05 at 12:09pm

Ok, it made perfect sense to me that she would undress Fabrizio since her facination with the naked marble statues is clearly established visually (by her grabbing a more interesting part of a museum statue) and vocally, by her saying 'these are very popular, in italy, its the land of naked marble boys' -so why wouldnt she be interested to find out what a real boy looks like? (lucky her, her man has a nice bod too)
also, some kids at 10 have already been told how sex works, whether that was cuz they saw the two science class mice going at it or whatever... besides with Margaret walking in on them its left perfectly ambiguous as to how much Clara knows and how far theyd actually get...

[Ourtime992]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 1:48pm

I posted what I thought was a good comment on this issue in the Piazza Synopis thread, so I'll cut and paste that over here:

"Clara's injury is described on the CD and hinted at musically and lyrically: the silliness of "We're on vacation!" and "that's a completely naked statue" and her outbursts when lost (Hysteria) and when Franca kisses Fabrizio (Octet).

"Clara's injury is one of the interesting dilemmas of this story, because it's not clear whether Clara is cognitively impaired (neuropsychological damage) or just emotionally impaired. As a psychologist, I see a big difference. Indeed, her ability to learn Italian over the course of a few months indicates that she isn't stuck with the cognitive acuity of a 12 year old. At the same time, the depth of her feelings for Fabrizio and her insight into her mother's love life seem to suggest that she isn't emotionally "frozen" at 12 either. I wonder, too, how much Margaret's sheltering of her daughter has contributed to the problem. I suppose that's why when Margaret lets go in the end it is so fulfilling, because we have been given glimpses of the fact that Clara is probably capable of more than her mother ever thought possible. Maybe that's because she just needed to be given a chance, or maybe it's because love has transformed her. Either way, it's a beautiful ending that leaves us with questions to ponder and hope in their answers."

As a psychologist, I've seen a number of children, adolescents, even adults who have suffered neurological damage, development delays, or traumatic injuries that affect some, but not all, facets of their behavior. As a result of Clara's accident, she is naive, self-consumed, and overly emotional, but that may also be the result of Margaret's efforts to forever protect her as well. Like most accident victims, Clara is able to acquire some new skills (Italian, for example) but has emotional outbursts that are regressive and immature. I don't think it's an inconsistency in the story -- just the opposite. But like so much about The Light in the Piazza, it forces you to consider more than can be summed up easily or appreciated at first glance/hearing.

On the other hand, I too think that the undressing scene at the end of act one is unnecessary (I love BroadwayAbridged's description that "soft core porn begins"). Not that Clara is incapable or wouldn't want to sleep with Fabrizio, but I personally feel that she would need more time to feel comfortable going that far, and that a more subtle approach would have been more effective.

Sorry for the long post.

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 2:00pm

ourtime - great post- thank you!

[Aryn007]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 2:44pm

Yes, thank you for that!

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 2:45pm

Updated On: 7/22/05 at 02:45 PM

[baddadnpa]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 2:48pm

I found that the lack of lyrics in a good portion of this song was to convey their inability to communicate with words due to a language barrier. I found it very effective. They were concentrating on their emotions and not striving to find the words that do not come easily. I found this scene to be staged beautifully. My head nearly exploded at how great this scene made me feel.

Updated On: 6/21/05 at 02:48 PM

[LittleFish8386]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 2:49pm

Ourtime, I agree with you 100% Thanks so much for that wonderful post. You put what I was trying to say (and what sounded good in my mind, but not in written word) into intelligable and careful words!

[bettyschaefer]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 5:07pm

I agree with these posts just wanted to put in my 2 cents. The OBC Recording has the dialogue from Margaret saying she was 12 when she got kicked. I remember he other dialogue in the show was something about how she would develop more slowly....not completely STOP developing emotionally and socially. So, while there are some immaturities that stick out (the yelling out and some confusion) she is probably not like a 12 year old in a 26 year olds body. I saw her to be about 15-16 but with some immature aspects that made her seem younger at times. I think Kelli plays her beautifully and the beauty of the show and the character is that although Clara herself is not "perfect" she can have and experience a perfect love. And right on cue Love To Me starts on the i-tunes....god I love this part..."tearing up as usual"

[Thenardier]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 5:09pm

The only thing I didn't like is the reaction ot her outburst.

Maybe I missed something, so some one can fill me in, but wouldn't ANYONE react like that, seeing their fiance kissing another woman?

Or maybe I watch to much Hollywood movies....

Posted: 6/21/05 at 5:54pm

I dont think at the time, it was normal to have emotional outbursts like that- i mean, even when Margaret says she has something shes really gotta say, they all look at her like wow...

plus if you can hear margaret trying to calm clara she says things like 'you cant talk to her like that, shes family!' and 'its her brother!' which ok, I guess people have left their spouse for the sibling but i think shes saying its a bit of a wacky idea, and maybe something clara didnt consider.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 6:12pm

"I know Clara is supposed to have the mindset of a 10 or 12 year old, but...her lyrics seem rather intelligible and reading through, it doesn't seem that there's any real hint of that, or that her words are at a 10/12 year old level...especially her thoughts on Fabrizio (don't most girls have silly crushes or still think boys have cooties at that age?...not to mention the implication that they're headed for sex...wouldn't a 10/12 year old be awfully giggly about seeing a boy without his shirt off, or a boy entering her room while she's only wearing her slip?)"

Well, if you put an average 12 year-old girl in a room with Justin Timberlake (or another teen heartthrob), you think she won't get all mushy or lusty? I remember 12 year-old girls when I was in junior high and many of them were quite ready to act on their feelings of desire. Even if they didn't know exactly what they wanted to do, they knew they wanted to do something. Usually, it was the boys that were clumsy and awkward, not the girls. In the case of Clara, she may not know precisely what to do, but her hormones help her out and Fabrizio is probably experienced enough to guide her along.

[teh_pretty]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 6:40pm

But this is in the fifties when girls weren't as overtly sexual as they can be today.