#126
Posted: 4/10/09 at 12:52am
And name-calling from you; I'm shocked.
Review: Next to Normal 4/4/09 matinee (small spoilers) — Page 6
#127
Posted: 4/10/09 at 12:59am
I could be wrong, but your flip comment about "troubled children" tells me that you probably have never been one, parented one--or tried to help pull a young person through this illness. Lucky you.
Wrong.
It's not really the subject I'm flip about, it's your insistence on blaming the art for the possibility of someone emulating it. It reads far too much like "the music made them do it! the video game made them do it! the movie made them do it!" Those are all cop outs as it is, without adding to them the kind of ridiculous call of "the Broadway musical made them do it".
Wrong.
It's not really the subject I'm flip about, it's your insistence on blaming the art for the possibility of someone emulating it. It reads far too much like "the music made them do it! the video game made them do it! the movie made them do it!" Those are all cop outs as it is, without adding to them the kind of ridiculous call of "the Broadway musical made them do it".
#128
Posted: 4/10/09 at 12:52pm
OrangeSkittles: are you seeing the writers or the producers claiming it's about mental illness? I feel like they've intentionally pulled that out since the revisions and now just focus on it as the story of a family "that's about to face the music". I feel like the fans of the earlier versions of the show are the ones who keep arguing that point but the writers moved on some time ago.
Have you not seen the show? Half the scenes take place in a therapy session, she sings songs about her psychotropic medications, she has a suicide attempt, and the entire plot revolves around her mental health problems and their impact on her family. To claim the show isn't about mental illness is like claiming Fiddler isn't about being a Russian Jew. Unless they've entirely rewritten the show since I saw it at Arena Stage to take out everything I mentioned above, the writers certainly haven't "moved on". Yes, as jordangirl has repeatedly shouted in this thread, it's not a documentary on mental illness, but to say the show and Diana's story are not about mental health issues is completely false.
Have you not seen the show? Half the scenes take place in a therapy session, she sings songs about her psychotropic medications, she has a suicide attempt, and the entire plot revolves around her mental health problems and their impact on her family. To claim the show isn't about mental illness is like claiming Fiddler isn't about being a Russian Jew. Unless they've entirely rewritten the show since I saw it at Arena Stage to take out everything I mentioned above, the writers certainly haven't "moved on". Yes, as jordangirl has repeatedly shouted in this thread, it's not a documentary on mental illness, but to say the show and Diana's story are not about mental health issues is completely false.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
Updated On: 4/10/09 at 12:52 PM
#129
Posted: 4/10/09 at 1:23pm
Just to clarify, I never said that the show has nothing to do with mental illness.
Experience live theater. Experience paintings. Experience books. Live, look and listen like artists! ~ imaginethis
LIVE THAT LESSON!!!!!!
LIVE THAT LESSON!!!!!!
#130
Posted: 4/10/09 at 1:48pm
Craww--
Am I wrong that you've never experienced any personal tragedy with bipolar, which I assumed from your tone and is what I posed there? Or is the wrong directed at my opinion in general?
Yes, of course there's personal responsibility, and Broadway shows can't be blamed any more than violent video games for making people do stupid things. I would NEVER seek to censor any of this stuff, that would be worse. But to deny that the culture we're steeped doesn't affect us, or that it can't contribute to bad and even tragic situations would be ridiculous. You can't hold people who make gangsta rap responsible for all the kids that shoot each other in the inner city either; but, hey, it sure ain't helping matters.
You also talk about teenagers with mental illness as though you'd expect them to always make rational decisions; seriously?
I am still glad Next to Normal is here; I'd be a lot happier had they been a little more accurate...that's all.
Am I wrong that you've never experienced any personal tragedy with bipolar, which I assumed from your tone and is what I posed there? Or is the wrong directed at my opinion in general?
Yes, of course there's personal responsibility, and Broadway shows can't be blamed any more than violent video games for making people do stupid things. I would NEVER seek to censor any of this stuff, that would be worse. But to deny that the culture we're steeped doesn't affect us, or that it can't contribute to bad and even tragic situations would be ridiculous. You can't hold people who make gangsta rap responsible for all the kids that shoot each other in the inner city either; but, hey, it sure ain't helping matters.
You also talk about teenagers with mental illness as though you'd expect them to always make rational decisions; seriously?
I am still glad Next to Normal is here; I'd be a lot happier had they been a little more accurate...that's all.
#131
Posted: 4/10/09 at 2:08pm
Oh shut your ****ing face hole already. You hate the show, just admit and stop trying to fake it. You think they're "GROSSLY AND DANGEROUSLY INACCURATE" when in fact they aren't at all.
How many time do you have to be told THIS ISN'T A DOCUMENTARY?
Get. Over. It.
How many time do you have to be told THIS ISN'T A DOCUMENTARY?
Get. Over. It.
Updated On: 4/10/09 at 02:08 PM
#132
Posted: 4/10/09 at 5:00pm
A friend pointed out that some of the sensitivity-driven changes have actually made the inaccuracies worse for her. I said "Because they've removed some of the parody and levity of the dark humor, but they're still mostly left with the same inaccuracies. The difference being that it's still wrong, it's just more earnest about it."
I think that goes a long way towards illustrating my problems with the changes, both from the artistic standpoint and from the morally responsible one.
Am I wrong that you've never experienced any personal tragedy with bipolar, which I assumed from your tone and is what I posed there? Or is the wrong directed at my opinion in general?
You're just wrong to make the assumption. Both literally and hypothetically. I don't think your opinion is entirely wrong, I just don't really agree.
I think that goes a long way towards illustrating my problems with the changes, both from the artistic standpoint and from the morally responsible one.
Am I wrong that you've never experienced any personal tragedy with bipolar, which I assumed from your tone and is what I posed there? Or is the wrong directed at my opinion in general?
You're just wrong to make the assumption. Both literally and hypothetically. I don't think your opinion is entirely wrong, I just don't really agree.
#133
Posted: 4/10/09 at 7:19pm
Craww, I actually agree with your friend...she makes a very good point and thanks for posting it. I, too, liked the show more at Second Stage than I did at the Booth, which I assumed was because I found it so surprising and refreshing the first time around that I didn't mind the inaccuracies as much. Toned-down and more earnest but still wrong wasn't what I'd been hoping for either. I think the debate of art vs. moral responsibility we've been having is actually a pretty interesting one. I'm sorry if I took your position to mean you hadn't experienced this up close or didn't care; I've just seen enough of this heartbreaking disorder for two lifetimes and I worry about affected kids.
KingKong, I'm not even gonna try to answer your insults except to wish you well and say, isn't life hard enough?
KingKong, I'm not even gonna try to answer your insults except to wish you well and say, isn't life hard enough?
#134
Posted: 4/10/09 at 7:29pm
If someone is stupid enough to "throw away their pills" after seeing this show it is the fault of no one, but the person stupid enough to "throw away their pills" after seeing this show.
The artist do not pursue or present a message that is anti-medication. A character in the show makes a choice after facing a situation that many people who are medicated face, the experience of feeling absolutely nothing at all. I can say I've had that experience and it is the ONLY time in my life where I genuinely considered suicide. For some people, the medication makes things worse. And just because you don't understand that, doesn't mean it's untrue or dangerous.
I guess it's easy to make ridiculous declarations such as yours when you didn't see the version of the show with Frankensteinian electrocution sound effects during Diana's ECT.
Thanks skittles, but I have, I've seen every version of this show since and including its production at NYMF. I believe the changes of the years have significantly lessened the shows emotional impact, but have made a better show technically.
The artist do not pursue or present a message that is anti-medication. A character in the show makes a choice after facing a situation that many people who are medicated face, the experience of feeling absolutely nothing at all. I can say I've had that experience and it is the ONLY time in my life where I genuinely considered suicide. For some people, the medication makes things worse. And just because you don't understand that, doesn't mean it's untrue or dangerous.
I guess it's easy to make ridiculous declarations such as yours when you didn't see the version of the show with Frankensteinian electrocution sound effects during Diana's ECT.
Thanks skittles, but I have, I've seen every version of this show since and including its production at NYMF. I believe the changes of the years have significantly lessened the shows emotional impact, but have made a better show technically.
#135
Posted: 4/10/09 at 7:40pm
Throwing out your medication is clearly not healthy. There is a reason why they are being prescribed in the first place, because it is what the body needs to function better. Most of us agree that a mental health problem should be taken as seriously as a physical problem, and why should it be treated any differently? If someone has type one diabetes, are they going to resist taking insulin because they need to feel the real pains of diabetes? If N2N were a musical about a woman who has diabetes, and in the end she decided to stop taking insulin... don't you think that the creative team would be responsible to show audiences that avoiding insulin shots hurt diana? Why is it that the real N2N (the one about mental illness) doesn't show that NOT taking your medicine is not healthy.
"There's nothing good on. The media hates Christmas. The media loves vampires, though. Maybe they will show a Twilight Christmas."
-Danmeg's 10 year old son.
-Danmeg's 10 year old son.
Updated On: 4/10/09 at 07:40 PM
#136
Posted: 4/10/09 at 7:53pm
No, I don't think that's their responsibility. You know why?
BECAUSE ITS FICTION.
But let me say this: As a teacher, I am certainly more sensitive about shows that portray teachers. I am sure those IN the field of psychiatry are likely to do the same here.
BECAUSE ITS FICTION.
But let me say this: As a teacher, I am certainly more sensitive about shows that portray teachers. I am sure those IN the field of psychiatry are likely to do the same here.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
Updated On: 4/10/09 at 07:53 PM
#137
You've clearly never been on medication for a mental illness.
Come back and talk to me about "choosing to feel the pain" after you felt NOTHING AT ALL. It's not about choosing to feel the pain, it's about choosing to feel.
As I've said, repeatedly, for SOME PEOPLE (not everyone) the medication makes things worse.
Posted: 4/10/09 at 8:02pm
You've clearly never been on medication for a mental illness.
Come back and talk to me about "choosing to feel the pain" after you felt NOTHING AT ALL. It's not about choosing to feel the pain, it's about choosing to feel.
As I've said, repeatedly, for SOME PEOPLE (not everyone) the medication makes things worse.
#138
Posted: 4/10/09 at 8:09pm
I understand what Diana feels, do I know what it's like to feel that way... no, because I have never experienced it personally. Diana feels that everything is flat, none of her emotions are real. It's very common... but usually is fixed with a proper medication fix up. This show paints an EXTREMELY rare, if not IMPOSSIBLE picture in which everything she has is the worst it can possibly be (none of her meds work properly, she looses years of memories after ECT when it's less common to lose THAT much). I know someone (my close relative in fact) who felt flat when on prozac, but switched to welbutrin (Sp?) and it worked perfectly for her. I think it is EXTREMELY rare, if not IMPOSSIBLE, for no treatment to work.
"There's nothing good on. The media hates Christmas. The media loves vampires, though. Maybe they will show a Twilight Christmas."
-Danmeg's 10 year old son.
-Danmeg's 10 year old son.
#139
Posted: 4/10/09 at 8:14pm
Here's a better example.
Sally has stomach problems.
Sally is given medication.
Sally's medicine makes her feel like she doesn't have a stomach.
Sally misses having a stomach.
Every other treatment makes her feel like she doesn't have a stomach?
Every other treatment gives her the WORST possible symptom?
Sally has stomach problems.
Sally is given medication.
Sally's medicine makes her feel like she doesn't have a stomach.
Sally misses having a stomach.
Every other treatment makes her feel like she doesn't have a stomach?
Every other treatment gives her the WORST possible symptom?
"There's nothing good on. The media hates Christmas. The media loves vampires, though. Maybe they will show a Twilight Christmas."
-Danmeg's 10 year old son.
-Danmeg's 10 year old son.
Updated On: 4/10/09 at 08:14 PM
#140
Posted: 4/10/09 at 8:19pm
It is made known that her memory loss is a very rare event. And true, its likely impossible that all medications would cause the reaction that Diana has in the show (and i must stress that it's more than just things feeling flat, its there NOT being feelings) but after a while, sometimes you just don't want to go through the process anymore.
#141
Posted: 4/10/09 at 8:23pm
About the feeling flat thing,
I'm using the I miss the mountains metaphor, (the mountains representing highs and lows... highs and lows being emotions). But yes, I can understand your point as you understand mine.
I'm using the I miss the mountains metaphor, (the mountains representing highs and lows... highs and lows being emotions). But yes, I can understand your point as you understand mine.
"There's nothing good on. The media hates Christmas. The media loves vampires, though. Maybe they will show a Twilight Christmas."
-Danmeg's 10 year old son.
-Danmeg's 10 year old son.
#142
Posted: 4/10/09 at 10:05pm
KingKong, I finally get where you're coming from. The people I love who are bipolar and on meds all miss the mountains to varying degrees. Catastrophes--suicidal impulses, psychotic episodes, hospitalizatons--happen when they're OFF their meds, or their meds have stopped working very well, but I believe you that the numbness could make someone desperate as well.
Way back in the day, I used to think a person took the appropriate meds for mental illness, and that was that; problem solved. I never realized the truth: that it's like some endless chemistry experiment, with all kinds of crappy side effects and cures that can feel worse than the disease.
Honest to God, if for no other reason, I like N2N because it means so much to the bipolar people I love. That way overshadows its flaws for me.
Way back in the day, I used to think a person took the appropriate meds for mental illness, and that was that; problem solved. I never realized the truth: that it's like some endless chemistry experiment, with all kinds of crappy side effects and cures that can feel worse than the disease.
Honest to God, if for no other reason, I like N2N because it means so much to the bipolar people I love. That way overshadows its flaws for me.
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