Rodgers and Hammerstein- Page 2

[allofmylife]

Posted: 1/13/11 at 7:06pm

broadwaybabytn, you are so far off the map on "Oklahoma" that you are in the next state. There had NEVER been a hit like Oklahoma. Tickets were gold and next to impossible to obtain. There were multiple road units touring at the same time, as well as productions in every country in the United Nations.

Thieves used to mail two tickets to rich people with letters telling them that they had won the ducats in the lottery, then rob their houses during the performance because they KNEW nobody would be home.

One night, the house manager arranged for a young couple on their honeymoon to do standing room. For the next six years, the box office was constantly besieged by couples claiming to be on their honeymoon.

The show made more money than any musical had up to that time and, during the cutthroat years of the 40s, held on to the theatre for almost half-a-decade 2200 performances, if I remember correctly), which would never have happened if they weren't making a tidy profit for all concerned.

[broadwaybabytn]

Posted: 1/13/11 at 7:12pm

My point was generally about critical success, but it's nice to hear from someone who knows more about this show than I do.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 1/13/11 at 7:20pm

I guess after years and years of productions of this show it is easy now take it for granted, but as Allofmylife reports it was the biggest hits of the 19540s and Broadway's longest running musical until MY FAIR LADY surpassed it in 1962.

The reviews and tally for OKLAHOMA! and hundreds of other shows - hits and flops - are summarized in an indispensable pair of books called Opening Nights.

If you can't buy them, request them through your local library. Full of fascinating details covering 1943-1964 and 1965 to 1981. (A proposed third volume was scuttled when the newspapers asked too much money to use the review quotes. Pity.)

http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Night-Broadway-Critical-Quotebook/dp/0028726286/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294964275&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/More-Opening-Nights-Broadway-1965-1981/dp/0028645715/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294964275&sr=1-4

Note the first volume may be purchased used for under $2. Used copies of Volume Two are pricier: $7-8

Updated On: 1/13/11 at 07:20 PM

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 1/13/11 at 7:47pm

Just looked in Amazon UK at the books and they are quite expensive there, you can buy a new copy for $250.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=opening+night+on+broadway&x=23&y=20

"The show made more money than any musical had up to that time and, during the cutthroat years of the 40s, held on to the etheatre for almost half-a-decade 2200 performances, if I remember correctly), which would never have happened if they weren't making a tidy profit for all concerned."

I assume the theatre was less accessible back in the 40s, as the cost of a ticket would be prohibitive then for a lot of middle class families, than it is today? So guess Oklahoma could of run for a lot longer, if we had the equivalent of ticket prices today?

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 1/13/11 at 8:19pm

A great quote from the excellent ‘Playbill – At This Theater’ book.

“On March 31, 1943, a musical play opened at the St James that was rumoured to be hopeless, in fact, the opening night was not sold out, and that was astounding, considering it was a theatre guild production and that it was the first fruit between Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein II, with choreography by Agnes de Mille and staging by Rouben Mamoulian. The show was (I think you know, my American friends x) and after the opening night, you needed powerful friends or powerful ticket brokers to get you into the St James, it became the hottest ticket since ‘Showboat’ in 1927. At the first matinee the following day, the lobby was jammed with blue –haired ladies and rabid musical comedy lovers all trying to get seats for the show that revolutionised the American musical theatre.

Enough has been written about the significance of this musical- integrated book and musical numbers, ballets woven into the plotetera not to warrant repetition. Notably, it launched the great team of Rogers and Hammerstein, saved the Theatre Guild from bankruptcy (once again), and directed the course of musical theatre for years to come, it run for 2,212 performances.”

Thought I share that with you!

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 12:07am

I believe a top ticket (orchestra seat) for OKLAHOMA! was somewhere in the neighbourhood of $4.80. (They did NOT have "premium prices" in those days but scalpers - ticket brokers as they prefer to be called - charged many times face value and teh St. James box office was investigated for providing said tickes to said scalpers/brokers.)

The original cast album (on 6 ten-inch 78s, with a booklet containing notes and lyrics) had a list price of $4.50 (plus another $2.85 if you wanted OKLAHOMA! Volume Two incluing 3 additional songs left out of the first set.) Point is the cast album cost about as much as an orchestra seat. Can you imagine paying $135 for a cast album to any current show?

Although...given that over the years I have purchased (new and used) OKLAHOMA on 78-rpms, Lp's (mono and fake stereo editions), the Time-Life Boxed set, a cassette and no less than 3 CD editions I have probably spent that much on the OKLAHOMA! ocr.

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 5:55am

You must be a big lover of the show, long may it continue.

A ticket for Oklahoma in 1943 cost $4:80, with inflation I wonder what that is in todays money?

My parent had to save up there hard worked money to see this show and that was in the...................... cinema.

So trying to make the point if theatre was less accessible in those days because of cost, than today.

[Jon]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 12:37pm

The original road company of OKLAHOMA ran for nearly two years in Chicago, a feat not matched until WICKED, some 60 years later.

[Ourtime992]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 1:25pm

According to an inflation calculator I found online (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/), $4.80 in 1943 is equivalent to $58.90 in 2009. Theatre has always been a pricey pastime, but it's worse now than ever.

[hockeynut2]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 1:32pm

Thanks JV92. I'm glad you enjoyed the interview I did with Andy. I didn't know how Andy was going to respond to that question, and when he sent me the answer-Sweeney Todd-he told me he spent a lot of time thinking how to answer that question.

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 2:06pm

That last posting is mad, think the individual has posted on the wrong thread.

$58:90 for a Carousel ticket at today prices (2009) for a ticket to Oklahoma, now that doesn't sound right, it could be possible in those days your salary could be very low, like $10 a week.

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 2:51pm

hockeynut2, that is a fantastic interview.

POL - hockeynut2 was referring to the link he posted on the previous page to an interview with Andy Hammerstein.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 2:55pm

Phantom: I know you're trying to prove that the theatre wasn't accessible, but it was. Keep in mind that $4.80 was the top ticket price. Running costs were lower and so ticket prices didn't need to be high. Watch Broadway: The Golden Age. Miles Kreuger (who is mostly hated now for sitting on a treasure chest of Broadway footage) said that at the time that Broadway wasn't a luxury, most people could afford it. It was for the masses and the masses flocked to it.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 7:05pm

There was a greater range of ticket prices back then: From a 1948 Ad for the Theater Guild productions of ALLEGRO an OKLAHOMA! (yes it was STILL running in 1947: CAROUSEL had opened, run 890 perfs and closed, and ALLEGRO had taken over the majestic Theatre.)

OKLAHOMA! at the St. James Theatre...
4.80, $3.60, $3, $2.40, $1.80 & 1.20 (For evenings at 8:30)
$3 & $2.40, $1.80 & $1.20 (for matinees Thursdays)
$3.60, $3 & $2.40, $1.80 & $1.20 (for matinees Saturdays)

ALLEGRO at te Majestic Theatre...
$6, 4.80, $3.60, $3, $2.40 For evenings at 8:30)
$3.60, $3, $2.40 (Matinees Thursday and Saturday)

The biggest hit at this time seems to have been Ethel Merman in ANNIE GET YOUR GUN (at the Imperial Theatre.)- Top price for evenings was $6.60 (with a $1.20 bottom price)with Wednesday and Saturday matinees running from $3.60 down to $1.20 (Yes, You could see Ethel Merman from the rear balcony at the Majestic...and for sure you could hear her voice, unamplified by mics and sound mixers - for $1.20!!)

[Phantom of London]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 8:49pm

Wow Wickedfan and Frontrowcentre2, I bow to both your superior judgement, thank you.

I can see there was no link with a show run length and accessibility by cost of ticket prices, it seems theatre was a lot cheaper then.

So why do shows run a lot longer today, than they did before? Could it be increased tourism, increased population size, I really don't know.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/14/11 at 9:11pm

There are two incorrect assumptions going on in this thread.

First of all, I don't know where anyone would get the idea that Oklahoma was not successful.

Every book I've read, every story I've ever heard, have all maintained that Oklahoma was the biggest hit of the mid-1940s and that it was impossible to get a ticket almost from the time it opened.

Second, theater was MORE affordable before the 1990s not less.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 1/16/11 at 5:12am

Theater also had little competition, just radio (free) and sports (very affordable) so people spent the $$ to see live theater that today would go to XBox, iTunes, cable, HBO, etc.

I have been collecting programs for decades and if I find one program, I usually find six or seven for the same week.

Honeymoons.

Updated On: 1/16/11 at 05:12 AM

[jv92]

Posted: 1/16/11 at 1:23pm

Oh, I know Oklahoma! was successful and a phenomenon. I was just saying the reviews were not as glowing as Carousel's reviews.

[broadwaybabytn]

Posted: 1/16/11 at 1:51pm

Thank you, jv92. That is the point I had been trying to make from the start of this thread.

[jdtp12]

Posted: 1/16/11 at 2:02pm

One thing I find interesting about the movie poster of Oklahoma! is that it says it is now at prices everyone can afford. Do you think saying that as opposed to the stage version?

[vassey]

Posted: 1/16/11 at 3:26pm

The prices that everyone can afford for the movie was because it had previously run at limited theatres as a Todd AO roadshow film, with booked seats and higher ticket prices. The more-widespread Cinemascope release ran as a normal film, and was cheaper.

[CandiceElyse]

Posted: 1/16/11 at 11:23pm

this is all so interesting and helpful, one of my term projects i will be working on this semester is about the transition of Oklahoma! between stage and screen. Its one of the very few times I have ever been excited about writing a term paper :)

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 1/22/11 at 10:19pm

It's a pity that Carousel had such a clumsy ending, else it might be mentioned as being in contention for best musical. The score was certainly there. I would put the Carousel Waltz up against anything written by the Waltz King himself: Strauss Jr.

Rodgers wrote so many beautiful waltzes: "Falling in Love with Love," "It's a Grand Night for Singing," "Hello, Young Lovers," and not to mention "Clambake."

[allofmylife]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 1:57am

I find it strange to suggest that Oklahoma did not get great critical acclaim. This is just plain wrong.

Carousel was the second show by the team, so naturally, the critics were totally accustomed to "Rodgers and Hammerstein" by then, but in many ways, the reviews for "Carousel" were sort of "They've done it again."

Here is the original review in the Times:

Oklahoma!
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By LEWIS NICHOLS
Published: April 1, 1943

For years they have been saying the Theatre Guild is dead, words that obviously will have to be eaten with breakfast this morning. Forsaking the sometimes somber tenor of her ways, the little lady of Fifty-second Street last evening danced off into new paths and brought to the St. James a truly delightful musical play called Oklahoma! Wonderful is the nearest adjective, for this excursion of the Guild combines a fresh and infectious gayety, a charm of manner, beautiful acting, singing and dancing, and a score by Richard Rodgers which doesn't do any harm either, since it is one of his best.

Oklahoma! is based on Lynn Riggs's saga of the Indian Territory at the turn of the century, Green Grow the Lilacs, and, like its predecessor, it is simple and warm. It relies not for a moment on Broadway gags to stimulate an appearance of comedy, but goes winningly on its way with Rouben Mamoulian's best direction to point up its sly humor, and with some of Agnes de Mille's most inspired dances to do so further. There is more comedy in one of Miss de Mille's gay little passages than in many of the other Broadway tom-tom beats together. The Guild has known what it is about in pursuing talent for its new departure.

Mr. Rodgers's scores never lack grace, but seldom have they been so well integrated as this for Oklahoma! He has turned out waltzes, love songs, comic songs and a title number which the State in question would do well to seize as an anthem forthwith. "Oh, What a Beautiful Morning," and "People Will Say" are headed for countless juke-boxes across the land, and a dirge called "Pore Jud"-in which the hero of the fable tries to persuade his rival to hang himself-is amazingly comic. "The Farmer and the Cowman" and "The Surry with the Fringe on the Top" also deserve mention only because they quite clearly approach perfection; no number of the score is out of place or badly handled. The orchestrations are by Russell Bennett, who knows his humor and has on this occasion let himself go with all the laughter he can command.

To speak and sing the words-Oscar Hammerstein 2d contributed the book and lyrics-the play has an excellent collection of players, none of whom yet is world-famous. Alfred Drake and Joan Roberts as the two leading singers are fresh and engaging; they have clear voices and the thought that the audience might also like to hear Mr. Hammerstein's poetry. Joseph Buloff is marvelous as the peddler who ambles through the evening selling wares from French cards to Asiatic perfume-and avoiding matrimony. Howard da Silva, Lee Dixon, Celeste Holm and Ralph Riggs are some of the others, and Katharine Sergava and Marc Platt are two of the important dancers. Possibly in addition to being a musical play, Oklahoma! could be called a folk operetta; whatever it is, it is very good.

Updated On: 1/23/11 at 01:57 AM

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 5:08am

Blue Eyes, in a poll that TIME Magazine did back around 2000 people picked CAROUSEL as the finest musical of the 20th century. Hammerstein's ending improves on Molnar by having Billy redeem himself. I was never satisfied with Billy being sent back to purgatory as in Molnar's original.