Should BIG, the musical, be revived on Broadway?- Page 2

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/14/09 at 9:56am

I agree that it on the recording, it diminishes the impact somewhat, but on stage in the Broadway production it really worked and actually added to the momentum of the song. To a lesser degree, it was sort of like The Music and Mirror where we hear the character's desperation and in the middle of the song, the audience gets a visual representation of those feelings which propels the character into the end of the song. In the tour, with only a couple of kids in the cast, it came across as a feeble effort, as with the rest of the show.

[winston89]

Posted: 2/14/09 at 12:09pm

I would have to agree with Mister Matt here. I re saw the Broadway production not that long ago at the Performing Arts Library and thought that on stage When Your Big, worked out very well. However, there were things that got lost when the song was recorded.

If you look at the film, there was a scene where grown up Josh was walking through his hometown. He saw two kids wearing the jacket for Josh's Little League team having a catch, and he saw a class outside a school (I think that it was supposed to be Josh's class) getting their class picture. When Your Big is the musical version of that scene, which is a very important one for the story. It is his walk around his hometown and seeing all the kids that he knows having fun and being kids, that has him decide to go back to being a kid again.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 2/14/09 at 1:01pm

I love Big. I saw it on Broadway and ever since it has had a special place in my heart. It's flawed, but the score is just wonderful. The original score, that is. Not the tour version. There are some real jewels in there: Stop, Time; Stars, Stars, Stars; Cross the Line; Dancing all the Time. It's a cute show, and when given a solid production, it really comes alive. I don't think it will ever be revived, but I'd love to see Papermill maybe do it. That is, if they're willing to actually pay for scenery and actors.

[jejr]

Posted: 2/14/09 at 1:06pm

In the tour as we entered the theater, there was a neon sigh hanging center stage that read BIG. It should have read BAD.
There was nothing worthwhile in the show. It should be forgotten.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/14/09 at 4:16pm

There was nothing worthwhile in the show. It should be forgotten.

If I had only seen the tour, I would probably agree. If I remember correctly, that ugly sign was not actually in neon lights, but it was the logo painted in neon red.

[MisterRussell]

Posted: 2/14/09 at 4:27pm

God, no, it was a steaming turd.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/14/09 at 8:58pm

Well, it received several decent reviews at least. The Times certainly liked it.

[winston89]

Posted: 2/14/09 at 9:42pm

wickedfan, glad there is also someone else out there who likes the show as well.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am under the impression that the tour version of the show was the one that ended up being the amature version that many schools and local theatres perform. I am not a fan of some of the new songs that were in the touring version. I, for example, don't like how they replaced I Wanna Go Home with Big Boys. I have always thought that I Wanna Go Home is a perfect example to show what a typical "I want" song in a musical is. Not just for the title, but for the acutal songs itself. I found that Big Boys failed to fit it's spot and killed some of the dramatic tension that was in that part of the story. When Josh gets to Port Authority he is scared and does want to go home and wish this never happened. I Wanna Go Home showcased that very well. However, with Big Boys it is Billy telling Josh all the cool stuff that they can do together now that he looks like he is in his thirties.

When it comes to Big, I guess I am jaded in the fact that I am blind to see any of the show's flaws. To me there are none. I guess that is because it is the show that introduced me to musical theatre at the age of six, and that night I fell in love with it and have been ever since. That whole day that I saw the show, what I did prior, where I had dinner, are things that I will never forget.

When it comes to the tour, I think I was about 7 or so when my parents surprised me with tickets to see it in Hartford. I remember that there was a sign with shaped lights that read BIG, that was hanging on two poles. I THINK that they light up in time with the overture but I am not 100 per cent on that. I do remember, that on tour, on stage right there was a park bench and the rest of the stage was bare. That is all I remember about the tour's pre set.

[homeimp]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 1:27am

I liked Big very much for the score and performances. Amazing to watch Daniel Jenkins today in Mary Poppins and remember that he starred in both Big & Big River. What I liked most was the fact that Big is the only Bdwy show I know that gave both kids and adults equal treatment in the song and dance numbers. What I liked least was THE scene that didn't work for me in the movie either. I just couldn't accept that it was OK for the lead character, who was still mentally a young boy, to have sex with his costar just because, as the song said, "I Want To Know". That complaint aside, I would love to revisit Big.

[winston89]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 2:32am

I think the scene with Josh making out with Susan serves a point in both the movie and in the show. Kissing a girl was something Josh had never done before. Although, I think that in both the movie and in the musical it ends up being an implied sex scene. Either way the whole point is that he is mentally a teenager, he has heard so many things about sex and women and he is very happy that he is getting to get a feel for things firsthand rather then having to just hear more stories. In the musical I Wanna Know has young Josh singing that song while the older Josh is kissing Susan. In the song, he is singing about all these feelings and all these stories about sex and women that he wants to know the truth to.

The movie adds an interesting element because Susan unbuttons her shirt and lets Josh touch her breast. Something that he had been curious about. In the beginning of the movie in one of the very first scenes, Billy tells Josh a story about how one of their classmates was able to see down their teacher's shirt and they liked what they saw. Josh, being curious about that loved what he had heard and in the movie when he actually got a chance to feel a breast it added another layer to the whole thing. Keep in mind, that my guess is that it is an implied sex scene because the scene in the movie after him making out with Susan is him arriving at work the next morning and is VERY happy and VERY upbeat.

In the musical the same feelings are expressed through the song Coffee Black, which, got its name, from a line in the movie.

Also, homeimp, Which version do you feel uncomfortable about Josh making out with his costar? The movie or the musical? I only ask because in the movie, in order to help Hanks learn how a 13 year old would act like in an adult world, they used a home video camera to shoot a majority of the scenes that Hanks would have been in with the actor playing the younger Josh, that way, Hanks could get a tool to help him out.

[B3TA07]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 4:11am

Absolutely not.

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 4:23am

Barbara Walsh's rendition of "Stop, Time" (which I believe was written for her out-of-town) was the best thing about both the original production and the cast recording.

Her ability to interpolate such heightened emotion into her material still astounds me to this day.

Updated On: 2/15/09 at 04:23 AM

[homeimp]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 11:31am

Hello, Winston 89. Many thanks for your thoughtful reply to my post. I want you to know I just went to my piano, dug out my piano-vocal score to Big (it's been a while). I had a long look at the lyrics to "I Want To Know", as well as playing through the song, before replying.
I pretty much felt the same response to the scene in the musical as I did to the movie scene. I still like the show and the score. I even like the song, and in a different context I may even have liked it better. But as I was watching the scene unfold in the theatre I felt (and I may have been imagining this) but I felt unease from the audience. The scene just didn't work for me. I didn't feel it was necessary for the show's storyline to have Josh end up in bed with Susan. In fact, it may have even added a different layer to their relationship at the end if Josh had turned down the opportunity and Susan realized the reasons for his sacrifice. But that's just me, I suppose.
Also, if I had been a parent with a child Josh's age, I'm afraid I would have had very mixed feelings about bringing my kid to that show. I am also reminded of this week's story from England about the young 13 year old father, announcing his intention to be a father and try to raise the child. I know that physically Josh was a man, but in his mind he was very much still a young boy.
Recently I saw the tour of Spamalot in Ottawa. Graham Bowen was the dance captain and also one of the original kids in Big. He understudied the role of Young Josh, so I presume that at some point he actually did go on in the role. I sent Graham an e-mail on his website, asking him about Big, and about this song and scene and his feelings regarding it, both at the time and now. Also, I asked what thoughts the director may have given him. Sadly I received no reply.
Thanks again for taking the time.
Rob Wills, Toronto, Canada

[winston89]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 5:30pm

See, I disagree with you that the scene both in the movie and in the musical of him going to bed with Susan was unneeded. I felt that it added an extra layer to their relationship. I have felt that sleeping with Josh was something that Susan had wanted to do, and since Josh has heard so many stories about it he of course would have gone along, willingly might I add. The Song, I Wanna Know is just Josh's inner monolouge about the topic at hand.

In the movie, when he is about to go to the Zoltar machine to make his wish to go back to being a child, he says a very important line. He says "There are a million reasons for me to go back, but there is one reason for me to stay...you." I think that Susan was the only person who treated him the way he wanted to be treated. Of course, I think that the way Josh wanted to be treated and the way grown ups are actually treated turned out to be two different things, and that, came as a total shock to Josh. But, in that darkness there was Susan, someone who treated him the way that he wanted to be treated who showed him that things aren't that bad.

In the movie, Josh says that if she wanted to, she can go back with him. Susan basically says that she lived it once and that it's not something that she wants to live again. However, I remember reading somewhere that there was a deleated scene in the movie. The scene was Josh and Billy in the classroom after Josh went back to being a child. The teacher says that there is a new student joining the class and that her name is Susan Lawrance. From what I understand, the scene ends with Josh and Billy both giving one another a look of shock. I have the DVD and no such deleted scene is located on it. So, I don't even know if this scene is real or not. But, if it was, it would show that Susan really loved Josh enough to go back and relive her teenage years just to be with him

[homeimp]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 5:49pm

You're obviously more familiar with both the movie and the musical than I am, so I will have to defer to you, even while not necessarily agreeing. But, hey, I do like that alternate ending! That's a neat little twist.
I still think that Josh/Susan scene, the way you describe it, takes it out of the realm of "family musical". Maybe I'm misjudging the target audience for the show??

[winston89]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 7:57pm

Keep in mind that the original movie was rated PG. But, this was before the MPAA even came up with PG-13. I think that if PG-13 was around when the movie came out then that was the rating it would have gotten.

The scene with Josh and Susan kissing was much more graphic (not the best choice of words here. But, whatever) in the movie then in the show. I feel that in the show the only reason why they were kissing and hugging as long as they were was for the sake of the length of the song. Had the song been shorter then it wouldn't have gone on as long.

But, homeimp, let me ask you a question. We both know that the whole point of Big, both the movie and the musical is that it's this teenager who is both feeling emotions and going through things that are totally above him. Now, I would add him having sex with Susan (once again, I feel that in both the movie and the show it is implied) is one of those things that he did not really being ready for it. Would it not have bothered you if it wasn't a 13 year old trapped in the body of a 30 year old?

But, as I said, in the movie, Susan unbuttons her shirt. Yes, she is wearing a bra but still Josh touches her breasts. I am VERY laid back when it comes to things like censorship etc, so I don't know. But, I could see why some parents might find something like that uncomfortable for their kids to watch.

I remember reading Big: The Diary Of A Broadway Musical, and there was a quote from someone in either the production or creative team. The quote was talking about how parents were taking their kids to see Beauty and The Beast as their first Broadway show, and they felt that Big would open up another option for first Broadway shows. Keep in mind that when Big was playing there was only one Disney show and parents only had one option. Clearly what they wanted worked, at least for me. Considering that at 6 my first Broadway show was Big.

Also homeimp, I can tell you after having recently gone to the archives to watch the Broadway production. The scene with Josh and Susan comes off MUCH more tasteful and family friendly onstage then it sounds on paper.

[TheCharleston]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 9:22pm

"But, this was before the MPAA even came up with PG-13. I think that if PG-13 was around when the movie came out then that was the rating it would have gotten. "

Incorrect.

PG-13 was created in 1984.

The movie was released four years later... in 1988.

[dg22894]

Posted: 2/15/09 at 10:10pm

Maybe in a few years it can be revived

[homeimp]

Posted: 2/16/09 at 11:37am

Thanks for the info you were 6 at the time you saw the show. I should have known that was what the Winston89 meant. So this was your first Broadway show? Impressive. I remember my first Bdwy show was On Your Toes, the 1983 revival. The next day I saw my first Bdwy play, Agnes Of God.
Your posts are so detailed regarding Big the Musical and Big the Movie that I really feel I need to see the film again to answer properly. Another look at the show wouldn't hurt either. I am very interested to hear that you went to the Archives to watch the production again. I am vaguely aware that there is such a place, but I thought you had to apply to view one of the showtapes and produce some kind of documentation that you were associated with an upcoming production of the show in question. Can you tell me how you were able to do this? If it is possible for a tourist from Canada to watch a show during one of those days with no matinees available, I would be very interested.
About the question you asked, Yes, of course it is the fact that Josh is still emotionally and mentally (if not physically) a 12 year old. To me that scene kind of turns him into just another randy young boy, and cheapens the story. It also seems at odds with the song, which is written very high for the boy's voice. So you hear these lyrics sung in an almost ethereal angelic boy soprano voice. I do recall that when I saw Big, Patrick Levis was still doing the role but he had grown somewhat since the show started and no longer looked, well, 12. Although he still had the notes, I remember asking him at the stage door how difficult the song was for him at this point in time. He replied "I'm hangin' in there", but there was a kind of rueful look on his face as he said it.
Anyway, perhaps it would be better to transfer our correspondence to regular e-mail? Feel free to reply to me at [e-mail]

[TheCharleston]

Posted: 2/16/09 at 11:54am

and THAT is how you pick someone up on the message board.

(I kid, I kid...)

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 2/16/09 at 12:50pm

I recently played in the pit for a community theatre production of Big. So a couple things in terms of things people were discussing...

We did both Big Boys and I Wanna Go Home. It was kind of optional...we got to a point in Big Boys and then skipped to I Wanna Go Home, and then went to the end of Big Boys sung just by Josh. I think it worked really well.

So I'm not sure the licensed version is the tour to a tee...I think it's mainly the tour, but some aspects of the Broadway version.

Re: I Wanna Know...in our version, adult Josh sang it. The director apparently wanted to cut the song, but the creators were very strict about governing even this community theater production, and refused to let her do so. I agree it's absolutely implied that they had sex by Coffee Black.

My absolute favorite song was Stop, Time. It's a true gem in the show. I also liked Cross The Line, the opening/overture, Stars Stars Stars, Little Susie Lawrence, and Dancing All The Time.

I really didn't like Time Of Your Life, Fun (except the keyboard part of course), Welcome to Macmillan Toys 1, My Secretary's In Love (I think the Broadway version of both these songs were better), the nightmare (could have been our production), or Susan's friends' song...can't remember the name. That was so problematic.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/16/09 at 2:20pm

I think this discussion of I Want to Know is quite interesting and my comments are regarding the Broadway production. The scene was handled much more discreetly and delicately on stage than in the film and having the song sung by Young Josh was crucial to the musical's point of view which was far more interesting and appropriate than the film. In the film, for the most part, the story was delivered from an adult perspective and the audience enjoyed watching a Tom Hanks vehicle where he spends most of the time acting somewhat like a kid. By making the kids more present in the musical and adding Young Josh's voice to that particular scene, we got more of the child's perspective on what it is to suddenly be an adult and we are more acutely aware of the presence of the child within Josh.

The scene itself is crucial to Josh's character arc. Without it, there is very little foundation for the ultimate demise in his his relationship with Billy and his enthusiasm for staying an adult other than his position at the company. The song is about sexual curiosity and the opportunity granted to a 13 year-old boy that is usually only given to fantasy.

To me, the musical really fleshed out the emotional content of a rather fluffy, but enjoyable comedy flick. The only thing I would have added to the musical was some sort of scene or musical number in which the children would acknowledge the sudden loss of their friend and classmate. If the original version were to be revised, I would rewrite It's Time and get rid of the dated (and lame) rap business and address that particular issue. You could have Billy's conflict with Josh's behavior coupled with the anxiety of the questions from his classmates.

Updated On: 2/25/09 at 02:20 PM

[jackson992]

Posted: 2/25/09 at 4:56pm

I just got cast as MacMillan for our community theater and am looking forward to it especially the song Fun which I like both versions. Obviously Mac has a bigger part in the tour version but the melody is better on the original version.

[winston89]

Posted: 2/25/09 at 6:16pm

homeimp, I got into the archives by telling them that I was auditioning for a production of the show and would like to see it. They had me fill out a form with my name and the reason why I was doing it. The form also had me fill out the name of the production company I was doing the show with. I just used the name of the Off Broadway theatre company that my high school director runs as a second job.

I agree and I can't believe that I forgot to mention that Josh's night with Susan is what makes him want to stay an adult even longer. That scene doesn't just turn him into some "randy teenager." The reasons why "I Want To Know" are important to the show are all listed in the past couple of posts.

Mister Matt, if I recall correctly from watching the show in the archives, Josh stops Billy at the end of When Your Big/Skateboard Ballet. Billy is playing with his friends and Josh stops him and let's him know that he wants to find the Zoltar machine and become a kid again. I THINK that in that scene the kids were skeptic for a second that the grown man standing in front of them was their friend Josh. However, Billy does prove them wrong and Billy and Josh, along with the rest of the kids go and find the Zoltar machine in an old warehouse.

I have always felt that Josh is missed and that his friends do miss him. But, at least as far as the film is concerned, we are only being focused in on the people who were central to Josh's life. His family and Billy. In the movie there is a scene that pulls on your heart strings. The scene is between Billy and Josh's mom. She talks to Billy, almost in tears, about how he has a birthday coming up. Billy comforts her by letting her know that he would be home soon.

I think that people do miss Josh. But, like I said, I think that the only people the musical and the movie focus on are the characters who are central to the story line and the ones that Josh cares about the most. The scene that I just talked about between Billy and Josh's mom ended up becoming a very well written scene in the musical between the two of them that went into Stop Time. I also think that at that point in the story Billy starts to miss Josh as well. Because at that point in the story, Josh becomes more engrossed in the grown up world with each passing day.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/25/09 at 6:30pm

Yeah, I remember something about that scene with Josh and Billy with the kids near the end, and I believe all the kids end up helping Josh find the Zoltar machine. I seem to remember them all standing and watching stage right.

I'm just saying that the song It's Time really doesn't do much other than a few lines of Billy expressing his frustration that Josh is starting to ditch him. I just think it could be utilized to fill the plot hole of the sense of loss and confusion (or lack thereof) amongst the kids that one of their own has gone missing. I mean, Josh is essentially artwork for a milk carton to everyone but Billy, but we don't get any indication that there is any concern whatsoever with the exception of the scene with Billy and Josh's mom and Stop Time. The musical did a great job at fleshing out the story and I think that was one part of the story that was a major omission in both scripts.