#26
Posted: 2/7/16 at 10:10am
But regardless, I like midler and all but damn, Lupone would have been amazing.
Streisand can't play Rose but Bette can play Dolly? — Page 2
#27
Posted: 2/7/16 at 10:37am
Let me be clear that I'm not saying a septuagenarian can't think her life is over and then have an epiphany at the end of Act One. It's not "wrong," and it can work nicely.
I just think it works better with a younger Dolly, who feels that way. That's why I love Streisand's Dolly in the film.
It's like the lyrics Sheila sings in "A Chorus Line" when, after her father proposed to her 22-year-old mother, he told her he was probably her last chance at marriage. And she agreed and married him. That's sadder to me than if she were 71 and told the same thing (although it's still works dramatically and it's wrong for anyone to be told that).
But the real punch in the gut is that she was 22 and she believed him.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
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Updated On: 2/7/16 at 10:37 AM
#28
Posted: 2/7/16 at 10:44am
I've never understood the ageism that Streisand got in Dolly. She was absolutely fantastic in the role and yes while she was young, she carried herself as an older woman ( in my opinion). No one could or can sing those songs like Streisand did (except maybe Lupone). 
And her comic timing was spot on and she's hysterical in the film.
#29
Posted: 2/7/16 at 10:46am
You are totally speaking in generalities. I've never bashed Barbra's Dolly. I don't think I've ever bashed her possibly being Gypsy. I like the idea of Bette here. So what? They are different roles with different needs...people are allowed to see things differently between the two and differently than do you.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#30
Posted: 2/7/16 at 10:51am
People are allowed to think anything they want, Captain Obvious. The POINT IS - Midler and Streisand are both equally not right for the role yet are both equally great for their roles.
#31
Posted: 2/7/16 at 11:13am
This Shrek person is relentless and unbearable.
#32
Posted: 2/7/16 at 11:16am
And yet, Shrek, you still don't see that what you are saying is still just YOUR opinion.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#33
Posted: 2/7/16 at 11:22am
When did I say it wasn't MY opinion? Feel free to disagree, I wasn't actually directing my comments about Streisand to you, was just talking in general. But again, it's MY opinion and I assume you're capable of agreeing or disagreeing. But perhaps maybe you aren't.
#34
Posted: 2/7/16 at 11:33am
I don't think the main argument for why Bette as Dolly is different than Barbra as Rose is/should be that Dolly is an ageless role. At least that's not the argument that means anything to me. Obviously if you want to get really specific into the given circumstances of the play, you could probably find a realistic age range for Dolly that is textually supported. And it would probably be younger than the Divine Ms. M is.
The most important thing is the mediums in which the women would be playing the roles. In the theatre, where the audience sits at a distance from the performers, age is less of an issue. We can see Bette from afar and our suspension of belief will let us accept her as simply a mature woman.
Barbra would be playing the role on film and we all know the camera isn't so forgiving. Barbra looks great for her age, but she still wouldn't be believed to be any younger than mid-late 50s at the youngest. Had LuPone or any of the other Roses who were pushing the age limit when they played the role attempted a film version, they would have gotten the same response.
No one is hating on Barbra or denying her talent, Shrek. But things just are the way they are.
#35
Posted: 2/7/16 at 11:37am
What best12bars said about younger vs. older Dollys has me thinking. I hope this revival has a long run and life after Bette moves on. The role is open to so many different types of stars. I'd love to see a long line of distinct and diverse Dollys.
Updated On: 2/7/16 at 11:37 AM
#36
Posted: 2/7/16 at 11:38am
For me the most surprising thing about this thread is that Shrek3 doubt's Midler's comic timing. Or at least in comparison to Lupone's. I mean yes, both women can be very funny, but Bette Midler's skills as a comic actress are legendary! If anything this could be the funniest Dolly there has ever been!
#37
Posted: 2/7/16 at 11:51am
Midler is awful at comedy. All those '80s comedies in which she hams it up for the camera make me cringe just thinking about them.
#38
Posted: 2/7/16 at 11:53am
CindersGolightly said: "This thread is kinda a mess and I'm kinda living for it.
Honey, the PERSON who started this thread IS A MESS. The thread reflects it's originator.
But of course WE can't come to a discussion board and posts OUR gripes, points of view or opinions but this person can in effect start a whole thread exclusively to bitch, moan and throw a virtual tantrum about a subject that has already been discussed ad nauseam?!?!?
It really needs to STFU.
#39
Posted: 2/7/16 at 11:55am
ljay889 said: "This Shrek person is relentless and unbearable.
Mmm hmm, yeah that sounds about right...
#40
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:05pm
It appears the OP is the return of phillypinto.
#41
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:06pm
I have not seen a production of Dolly. Is there a reason an older performer doesn't just make "Before the Parade Passes By" more poignant?
#42
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:13pm
This does sound like philly!
#43
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:26pm
Shrek's entire argument went right out the window when he suggested LuPone for Dolly. While I think LuPone would have probably made a fun Dolly, IF I were trying to build an argument based on age, I would not suggest a similarly aged actress for the role, no mater how good her comic timing may be. To do this negates the entire argument.
The bottom line answer is that stage and screen are two different mediums and one medium is more forgiving to age than the other.
While that is the bottom line answer, I still say Dolly is an ageless role. Ms. Channing has proven that herself. She played the role just as well in her 70's in the 1994 revival and tour as she did in the original production. I do believe that a younger Dolly brings something very different to the table than an older Dolly does, but if played right, both work very well.
To a younger Dolly, before the Parade Passes By means that there is a whole lot of life left that is worth living and it is time to make a change. To an older Dolly it means, "I only have a few good years left, and I should live them to the fullest rather than hiding away and slowly decaying in my solitude." Both interprations work. One is more energized and exciting, where as the other is both poignant and inspirational. It can make perfect sense for an older woman to sing that song.
#44
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:37pm
I'm not building an argument based on age. This is simple, people.
,
Updated On: 2/7/16 at 12:37 PM
#45
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:44pm
Ok....so if its not about age, then its simply about your disdain for the people that post here. Simple solution: don't post/read/stop by.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#46
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:46pm
Shrek3 said: "I'm not building an argument based on age. This is simple, people.
And I'm certainly not Philly Pinto.
I believe in Bisexuality after all.
,
"
You are building an argument based on age. Your argument is that both actresses are too old to play their respective roles. That is an argument. An argument is a claim that you are making and trying to get other people to understand and agree with based on the evidence you supply.
#47
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:48pm
dramamama611 said: "Ok....so if its not about age, then its simply about your disdain for the people that post here. Simple solution: don't post/read/stop by."
Shrek3 has been coming here and starting $hit for so long, why would he stop now?
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Updated On: 2/7/16 at 12:48 PM
#48
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:50pm
No my argument is: both roles are fine for both women to play because they fit the parts so well regardless of their age. My other point was to point out the hypocrisy of people not caring what age Bette is for Dolly yet complaining what age Streisand is for Rose. The only people who have made this an age thing are the people who have committed the hypocrisy.
Updated On: 2/7/16 at 12:50 PM
#49
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:55pm
Shrek3 said: "No my argument is: both roles are fine for both women to play because they fit the parts so well regardless of their age. My other point was to point out the hypocrisy of people not caring what age Bette is for Dolly yet complaining what age Streisand is for Rose. The only people who have made this an age thing are the people who have committed the hypocrisy. "
OMG, but the two roles have nothing to do with one another. Why can't you comprehend that? Dolly isn't the mother of two young children. You are definitely Philly, it's the same exact routine. You are creating an argument that has absolutely no basis.
#50
Posted: 2/7/16 at 12:56pm
And if you aren't Philly, who did were you the last time you were here? Otherwise, it's highly unlikely you would have known about the whole lack of belief on his part with bisexuality....and then had the need to erase that part of your comment.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
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