The future of set/props from Phantom- Page 2

[HogansHero]

Posted: 10/11/22 at 9:43am

Phantom4ever said: "So for the 4th time: I bet the Bjornson estate will want some of the stuff she created inside the Majestic. Boom."

What you said:

"Maria Bjornson's name is now trademarked in the Phantom playbill, so I can't see her estate letting her creations get thrown onto 44th Street to the highest bidder."

"Since Bjornson's estate is so invested in her name that they took the step of trademarking her name, that suggests that they would also want to/attempt to/go to court for the right to/ have a say in what happens to her Phantom sets and drapes."

Also, I think you severely misapprehend what this "estate" is and why they trademarked the name not to mention what the trademark provides, but ok I'm done.

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 10/11/22 at 9:54am

Wow I'm kind of flattered you cared enough to go back and carefully quote my comments. 

So yeah I can't see her estate letting the stuff get thrown out. I think they will try and obtain them somehow. 

And yes, since her estate is so invested in her name that they took the extraordinary step of trademarking her name, I think they probably would like to hold on to some of it. I'm just not sure how they would go about that. 

None of this suggests that the trademark allows them to walk around and take things lol. 

[Shalfoard]

Posted: 10/11/22 at 10:06am

After the original production of CATS closed, there was a rummage sale of costumes, props, etc, inside the Winter Garden.  I bought a Siamese cat mask. 

[mememe]

Posted: 10/11/22 at 11:17am

Phantom4ever said: "Wow I'm kind of flattered you cared enough to go back and carefully quote my comments.

So yeah I can't see her estate letting the stuff get thrown out. I think they will try and obtain them somehow.

And yes, since her estate is so invested in her name that they took the extraordinary step of trademarking her name, I think they probably would like to hold on to some of it. I'm just not sure how they would go about that.

None of this suggests that the trademark allows them to walk around and take things lol."

This isn’t a thing. The estate won’t give two hoots as to what happens to the used props and costumes. It has no baring on her legacy, what happens to items that have been reproduced multiple times already. They have no purpose in having them. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 10/11/22 at 11:29am

mememe said: "This isn’t a thing. The estate won’t give two hoots as to what happens to the used props and costumes. It has no baring on her legacy, what happens to items that have been reproduced multiple times already. They have no purpose in having them."

I disagree, and I think it may be "a thing".

Updated On: 10/11/22 at 11:29 AM

[Lot666]

Posted: 10/11/22 at 11:29am

Shalfoard said: "After the original production of CATS closed, there was a rummage sale of costumes, props, etc, inside the Winter Garden. I bought a Siamese cat mask."

How did you learn of this sale, and was it open to the public?

[Shalfoard]

Posted: 10/11/22 at 12:37pm

The CATS rummage sale was well publicized, and open to the public to pick up a memento from Broadway's longest running show. https://playbill.com/article/photo-call-welcome-to-the-junkyard-cats-auctions-itself-off-sept-16-com-91959

[HogansHero]

Posted: 10/11/22 at 1:02pm

Lot666 said: "mememe said: "This isn’t a thing. The estate won’t give two hoots as to what happens to the used props and costumes. It has no baring on her legacy, what happens to items that have been reproduced multiple times already. They have no purpose in having them."

I disagree, and I think it may be "a thing"."

In thinking this, just how much have you familiarized yourself with the foundation that is what folks are referring to as "the estate." It was chartered in the notorious tax haven of Liechtenstein by her mother's estate, to which her estate also became a party. Its purpose is to promote Romanian culture and cultural figures and is based in London. Nowhere in all of this is Maria or her legacy mentioned and as rehearsed previously to suggest some significance in the trademark is to fail to understand what a trademark is. I think it is crystal clear that none of this is a thing beyond this board. lol

[JSquared2]

Posted: 10/11/22 at 1:30pm

Shalfoard said: "The CATS rummage sale was well publicized, and open to the public to pick up a memento from Broadway's longest running show. https://playbill.com/article/photo-call-welcome-to-the-junkyard-cats-auctions-itself-off-sept-16-com-91959"

 

That was in the year 2000 --- the "fans" were much less crazy back then.

[Listener]

Posted: 10/12/22 at 2:23am

"Unfortunately I had the misfortune of seeing the phantom in London last week. I walked our feeling as if my family had died. It was so sad.  So ugly. So terrible. It was like community theatre and just terrible.  Even the costume fabrics look cheap. Like polyester and industrial warehouse.  There was no elegance"


 
That is so painful to read and confirms my worst fears. I saw a glimpse of the new London overture online, but nothing else really, and assumed they'd only changed the overture a bit (new chandelier, that "broken" beam, etc) and lost the Angel on the proscenium for the bulky freestanding Angel Statue in AIAOY. Already, those are significant changes, but whatever. I could have dealt with it somewhat. You're telling me they've replaced the costumes as well? And the curtains? And altered choreography?

...does it means they pay GL's estate 40% less money if they've changed 40% of her choreo? Or MB's estate 40% less if they change 40% of the sets and costumes?

Considering how many productions have already opened and closed worldwide in the span of the last 35 years, how have they not already got a couple dozen beautiful copies of each dress and outfit to choose from and use as replacements for another ten years? I get it that costumes this beautiful and ornate can cost big bucks to replace or alter...but if you can swap in the Canadian production version or whaterver production versions...why not?

The "death in the family" feeling has been with me as well since the announcement of the closing. It's awful. I just know we'll never see it again the way it was, and I dread the various "dazzling" mutations it'll undergo in the years to come.

I'm also curious what will happens with the set pieces from the original show. I'm guessing someone will find a way to snatch up all the big stuff, and maybe there will be ballet slippers or a pillow left for phans to scrap and tug over.

This just seems like such a waste. Everything is already built. Keep the curtains. Keep the sets and props and costumes. Don't pare it all down.

 

Updated On: 10/12/22 at 02:23 AM

[mememe]

Posted: 10/12/22 at 7:43am

Listener said: ""Unfortunately I had the misfortune of seeing the phantom in London last week. I walked our feeling as if my family had died. It was so sad. So ugly. So terrible. It was like community theatre and just terrible. Even the costume fabrics look cheap. Like polyester and industrial warehouse. There was no elegance"



That is so painful to read and confirms my worst fears. I saw a glimpse of the new London overture online, but nothing else really, and assumed they'd only changed the overture a bit (new chandelier, that "broken" beam, etc) and lost the Angel on the proscenium for the bulky freestanding Angel Statue in AIAOY. Already, those are significant changes, but whatever. I could have dealt with it somewhat. You're telling me they've replaced the costumes as well? And the curtains? And altered choreography?

...does it means they pay GL's estate 40% less money if they've changed 40% of her choreo? Or MB's estate 40% less if they change 40% of the sets and costumes?

Considering how many productions have already opened and closed worldwide in the span of the last 35 years, how have they not already got a couple dozen beautiful copies of each dress and outfit to choose from and use as replacements for another ten years? I get it that costumes this beautiful and ornate can cost big bucks to replace or alter...but if you can swap in the Canadian production version or whaterver production versions...why not?

The "death in the family" feeling has been with me as well since the announcement of the closing. It's awful. I just know we'll never see it again the way it was, and I dread the various "dazzling" mutations it'll undergo in the years to come.

I'm also curious what will happens with the set pieces from the original show. I'm guessing someone will find a way to snatch up all the big stuff, and maybe there will be ballet slippers or a pillow left for phans to scrap and tug over.

This just seems like such a waste. Everything is already built. Keep the curtains. Keep the sets and props and costumes. Don't pare it all down.

"

It’s about the running costs. 
 

A big part of it are the royalties and you are on the right lines with what you asked about the percentages. It’s going to work differently for each individual creative, based on what their lawyers have negotiated but in essence the production pays less on that front, with less of their work in there. Although; I am not sure that Gillian Lynne’s estate get anything, I don’t think there is a step of her hers left? 
 

Cameron got his in house, salaried Director and designer to redo the show simply so he could save money. 
 

 

[saxpower]

Posted: 10/12/22 at 10:21am

Shalfoard said: "The CATS rummage sale was well publicized, and open to the public to pick up a memento from Broadway's longest running show. https://playbill.com/article/photo-call-welcome-to-the-junkyard-cats-auctions-itself-off-sept-16-com-91959"

Given the changes in technology and how things are bought and sold since 2000, if they do this, they will at least make some things available online for people who do not live in new york.  Won't work for larger stuff, but could for smaller items (like a string of crystals/glass that hangs off each light in the chandalier). 

Any such sale could also raise a good deal of money for Broadway Care/Actor's Fund/other charaties. 

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 10/18/22 at 4:14pm

I would love to snag the Christmas tree that was always put up for the holidays near the bar on the lower level of the Majestic. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 10/18/22 at 5:51pm

I hope Cameron Mac tours this production one last time and markets it as such, “the last time you can see the original Hal Prince staging in North America.”

[Fosse76]

Posted: 10/18/22 at 6:18pm

Phantom4ever said: "I would love to snag the Christmas tree that was always put up for the holidays near the bar on the lower level of the Majestic."

That doesn't belong to the show.

[Lot666]

Posted: 10/19/22 at 9:10am

Call_me_jorge said: "I hope Cameron Mac tours this production one last time and markets it as such, “the last time you can see the original Hal Prince staging in North America.”"

That won't happen.

[The8re phan]

Posted: 10/19/22 at 10:09am

Lot666 said: "Call_me_jorge said: "I hope Cameron Mac tours this production one last time and markets it as such, “the last time you can see the original Hal Prince staging in North America.”"

That won't happen."

true dat....

he already pulled that stunt back in 2010 with "your final chance to see the Hal Prince original......" https://playbill.com/article/after-17-years-phantom-tour-will-retire-its-mask-in-november-com-165647

Sadly, just as with Les Mis, he's unlikely to veer far from these '(not-so) brilliant new productions' since he hasn't made nearly enough off these titles the past 35+ years

Updated On: 10/19/22 at 10:09 AM