Today’s Random Question: Puppet vs. Costume?

[PatrickDC]

Posted: 10/4/19 at 12:51am

Re Frozen, I see lots of people refer to Sven as a puppet, but isn’t it technically just a costume? I think Olaf is a puppet because he is a stand alone object, like a marionette but with some controls and the slats attached to the performer’s boots. But Sven is different. It’s a costume worn by an actor. Same with most of The Lion King’s characters. I dunno, just one of those random thoughts I had while stuck on a commuter train looking out the window. 

[JBroadway]

Posted: 10/4/19 at 1:07am

Well, there are actually puppets in the Lion King like Timon, Zazu, and several of the other animals. But I see your point. 

As for characters like Sven: technically, you're probably right. But I think people probably call it a puppet because it feels like it's more in the spirit of puppetry than it is in the spirit of just costume design. Partly because the anatomy of the Reindeer is represented fairly realistically, and it's so different from a human's, so it gives the impression of a "puppet" being operated from the inside, even if that isn't technically an accurate description. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 10/4/19 at 3:17am

Is the human inside doing ANYTHING besides manipulating the "costume"? If no, its a puppet.

[Justin D]

Posted: 10/4/19 at 8:55am

Exactly, Sven has eye movements that are controlled by the actor, hence he is a puppet.

Think of Lion King...

Zazu - puppet. Simba - costume

Timon - puppet, Lionesses - costume

the gray area might come in with Scar and Mufassa where their headgear does move, but thats all it does, so they technically might be just a costume.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 10/4/19 at 10:38am

If you ask me, I think the fact that there is even any "gray area" at all is a testament to the creativity of Michael Curry and Julie Taymor. One of the great things about truly creative artists is that they just create what they want, and what they think will be effective. And then the labels and categorizations have to adjust for them, not the other way around. 

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 10/4/19 at 11:53am

JBroadway said: "Well, there are actually puppets in the Lion King like Timon, Zazu, and several of the other animals. But I see your point.

As for characters like Sven: technically, you're probably right. But I think people probably call it a puppet because it feels like it's more in the spirit of puppetry than it is in the spirit of just costume design. Partly because the anatomy of the Reindeer is represented fairly realistically, and it's so different from a human's, so it gives the impression of a "puppet" being operated from the inside, even if that isn't technically an accurate description."

I think the Sven costume/puppet is more akin to the giraffe and cheetah costumes/puppets than the ones listed. 

[John Adams]

Posted: 10/4/19 at 12:15pm

I would call Sven an "articulated costume", similar to Disney's park characters. The Sven costume is worn by the actor (costume), but has automated (articulated) features.

Puppets and marionettes aren't usually worn on the body. They're manipulated off the body.

The Disney parks have several characters with "articulated heads" (the eyes blink, etc...). The articulated heads are worn on the body, and Disney refers to the heads as part of the costume.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 10/4/19 at 11:11pm

John Adams said: "I would call Sven an "articulated costume", similar to Disney's park characters. The Sven costume is worn by the actor (costume), but has automated (articulated) features.

Puppets and marionettes aren't usually worn on the body. They're manipulated off the body."

Except for every full-bodied puppet Jim Henson and the Henson company have created, such as Big Bird, Sweetums, the Ghosts of Christmas Present and Future, a large number of the creatures in both The Dark Crystal and Labyrinth. The list can go on for quite a while of full-body puppets.

[John Adams]

Posted: 10/5/19 at 9:48am

AEA AGMA SM said: "Except for every full-bodied puppet Jim Henson and the Henson company have created, such as Big Bird, Sweetums, the Ghosts of Christmas Present and Future, a large number of the creatures in bothThe Dark CrystalandLabyrinth.The list can go on for quite a while of full-body puppets."

I don't know if Henson ever referred to his full-bodied creations as "puppets" (he might have, I'm just not aware of it). To my knowledge, they were muppets, which (for me) works really well; a newly created descriptor for his innovations that went beyond the mold of traditional puppets.

In The Dark Crystal, both costumed actors and muppets were used to portray the same characters onscreen. Personally, I found that a distraction because the difference between muppet and costumed actor was REALLY obvious!

The term that Disney uses is "articulated" when describing their innovation RE: the heads for their costumes (which I *think* Sven is - a costume with an articulated head). 

Your point is interesting because it broadens the OP's question to also include Henson's creations.

[Rosette3]

Posted: 10/5/19 at 12:23pm

FYI here's an awesome  BTS video/interview/interview with Andrew Pirozzi one if the two Sven. It also shows all the components that goes into Sven's costume but doesn't detail how the eyes and ears are articulated. Really fascinating!

 

 

Updated On: 10/5/19 at 12:23 PM

[John Adams]

Posted: 10/5/19 at 1:38pm

Rosette3 said: "FYI here's an awesome BTS video/interview/interview with Andrew Pirozzi one if the two Sven."

In the video, Mr. Pirozzi (WOW! What a handsome man he is...!) refers to Sven as a puppet. That's the definitive answer for me!

__________________

PS: I just watched the video again. Not because I wanted to learn anything new - just wanted to gaze at Mr. Pirozzi again...

Updated On: 10/5/19 at 01:38 PM