Why did RAGTIME close?

[CapnHook]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 8:54pm

Just got the RAGTIME cast recording, it has a GREAT score! Why did it close?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 8:57pm

On Broadway it closed because it was no longer pulling in the customers. It had run for 2 years and the Ford Center is a fairly large theater.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 9:16pm

It cost too much to run

Posted: 11/12/03 at 9:17pm

They should have moved it to another theater, IMO.
And also wasn't the company that was footing the bill have seme major money scandals and problems?

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 9:18pm

Yup, good old Livent.What ever happened to old Garth Drabinsky.

Updated On: 11/12/03 at 09:18 PM

[MusicMan]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 9:18pm

It's an uninvolving show. No surprises there.
Updated On: 5/1/08 at 09:18 PM

[LouW95]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 9:24pm

Ragtime was doing fairly well but the Livent scandal took its toll and it had to close. Time for a full revival.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 9:25pm

To Music Man - wrong again

[BillyLawlor]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 9:33pm

I have been listening to this recording A LOT recently, and the score is so amazing. I wish It would have lasted so longer, so that I would have gotten to see it. It really was such an amazing show.

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 9:34pm

Although the show's appeal is certainly up to debate (and while I like the show, I think Flaherty and Ahrens are a team who can do everything right on the page but not find the magic in the theater,) I'm fairly certain the closing was almost entirely due to bad business on the part of Livent and Garth Drabinski. It was doing well at the box office, but, as I understand it, the cost to run the production was nothing short of absurd.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 9:37pm

What was in the production that drove the costs up?

[newyorkuniq]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 10:14pm

I loooove Ragtime! I have only seen it in a State Theatre Production and wish I could have seen it on Broadway.

[Cadriel]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 10:16pm

The closing was due to Livent going under. There was a whole sloppy saga whose details I have been told, but don't recall...basically, bad production decisions.

Nothing to do with quality.

-Wayne

[Dollypop]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 10:18pm

Wait a minute...RAGTIME wa a large show and at one point they downsized the cast and made cuts in the show for financial stability. It didn't help. The show was too expensive to run.

Posted: 11/12/03 at 10:21pm

For starters it was in a brand new theater.
The show also had a replica of a Model T onstage.
The shows costumes were eceptional and the cast was huge!

And Music Man, I have to disagree -- the musicwas amazing in its patrotism and the fact it pulled together many styles of the era.

[tpdc]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 10:29pm

I don't think they downsized RAGTIME on Broadway did they? SCARLET PIMPERNEL and to a lesser extent LES MIZ were downsized but they were fairly well covered.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 11:04pm

Ragtime was not bringing in as many customers as it should. It was appearing regularly on TKTS. There are 1,813 seats in the theater, quite a big theater.

PS: remember the big stereoscope?

[MusicMan]

Posted: 11/13/03 at 1:00am

First off, the show is told primarily in the third person, preventing audience identification right outta the gate and making it hard to care. For such a concept to have succeeded, it would have required a greater theatrical, musical and lyrical imagination and brain power than McNally, Ahrens and Flaherty have demonstrated to date (oh, to think what Leonard Bernstein could have done with the opportunity!). The opening number, though effective in setting up the characters, is musically ungainly. The "Goodbye, My Love/Journey On" sequence which follows is a wordy, bombastic bore which nearly stops the show dead in its tracks before it begins. Finally, poor Coalhouse Walker, our leading man, isn't even given a character-defining song of any real substance but a throwaway number that smacks of minstrelsy (no wonder a black cast member dubbed the show "Cracktime.")And from this point on, the show never gains momentum again. Oh, yes, there are pleasant moments:the Henry Ford song, the baseball song. Typically, for an Ahrens and Flaherty show, there was very little humor to be found in the proceedings. And the one distinguished ballad, Wheels of a Dream, was essentially a car commercial for Ford, with the car prominently displayed throughout the number. Production-wise, what exactly was the point of the Grand Central Station set design anyway? What does a metaphor of embarkation have to do with a show that is essentially about revolution? Ultimately, audiences didn't come because they didn't respond to the show. Either a different approach to the story was required or, given the nature and structure of the material, it wasn't a good idea for musicalization in the first place.

Updated On: 5/1/08 at 01:00 AM

[bob8rich]

Posted: 11/13/03 at 4:50am

Sorry, Music Man but I cannot agree with your comments about Ragtime. Obviously, everyone has their own tastes and opinions about musicals (as with anything else) but I have to say thatI have never been so emotionally affected by a musical as I was when I first saw Ragtime in Toronto. And I was equally "blown" away by the productions I later saw in Chicago and Cardiff. This is what all musical theater should aspire to be. On all levels it ranks as one of THE great musicals. Its Broadway closing was purely the result of Livent's financial mishandling - as was the subsequent cancellation of the planned London staging in 1999. (Luckily it finally reached the West End as a result of the universally acclaimed concert production in Cardiff in 2001.)

The score is simply wonderful - I play the CD regularly - it is SO varied in its musical styles and it contains a large number of strong character revealing songs.

And I do not agree that it is devoid of humor. Listen to Lynn Ahrens' lyrical wit in "What A Game!", "Nothing Like The City" and "The Crime of the Century". Also, there is clear evidence of subtle humor and sub-text in Terrence McNally's superb book. (McNally has to be one of the finest writers working in theater today.)

As a post-script - I cannot agree with your allusion that there is a lack of humor in all Flaherty/Ahrens shows. Listen to the song "Books" in "A Man of No Importance" and their ability to write songs with classic musical theater wit is abundantly clear.

[LouW95]

Posted: 11/13/03 at 7:58am

I will state some facts not opinions as I had friends involved with the show...it was never downsized here but recently in London and failed, closed on Bway due to the Livent scandal, did quite well but received mixed reviews and was polled under by the scandal which is still being resolved in a class action settlement.

[mebice]

Posted: 11/13/03 at 8:33am

I personally agree with the people that like Ragtime. It was the first show that I saw that made me want to do this for a living. And I saw many shows before that. I too listen to it reguarly. I love Goodbye My Love. You see the opinions of these three wonderful characters. I absolutely love the musics and i love the lyrics! I wish they would bring this back and keep the politics out of broadway...uh huh..
But, yes, I am one the biggest fans of this play and always will be. It was my first love.

[magruder]

Posted: 11/13/03 at 8:38am

Ragtime didn't close directly as a result of the Livent scandal. Actually, I recall that Ragtime (and Livent's Fosse) were both taken over by SFX/Clear Channel when Livent went under, and SFX tried to keep both shows going. Ragtime was incredibly expensive to run each week. The running cost because of Ragtime's huge cast, orchestra and physical production was very high, and after a while, the show just wasn't meeting its costs.

[MusicMan]

Posted: 11/13/03 at 10:37am

Bob8rich, you conveniently omitted the unsuccessful London production. Financial mishandling again?
Updated On: 5/1/08 at 10:37 AM

[robbiej]

Posted: 11/13/03 at 10:48am

MusicMan,

Ya know...I don't always agree with your 'take no prisoners' tone...but I couldn't agree more with you. I was left completely non-plussed by RAGTIME. Of course, I did not see the original cast, which some have told me would have made all the difference.

But then I have to ask, if it would have made the difference, how good of a show could it be?

I felt RAGTIME did not have cohesion. It straddled the fence between traditional music theatre and the Brechtian form. I thought the characters should have been either broader (Brechtian) to make some sort of political or social statement, or more fully drawn (think CAROULSEL) for complete emotional involvement.

I also never understood just why the physical production had to be so huge. The best staging in the show were the opening (with three different 'ethnic' groups circling each other) and the dance with Coalhouse and Sarah after she is killed where they never actually touch. Both were simple and effective and it was in those moments the the promise of this story was held.

[MusicMan]

Posted: 11/13/03 at 12:05pm

RobbieJ, I just shoot straight from the hip.
Updated On: 5/1/08 at 12:05 PM