sweet charity
sweet charity
#0sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 10:44am
Am I the only person who thought that sweet chairity stunk??
Updated On: 6/28/05 at 10:44 AM
#1re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 11:20am
Uh--why does it "stink"? The score is first rate and beautifully orchestrated, and at Sunday's performance, Applegate was funny, moving, had perfect pitch, and delivered a first-rate performance. Dennis O'Hare is perfect, and believable as a hetero shlub, and was was robbed of a Tony nomination. The dancing and the book--problems. The new ending is worse than the old one, and shows how creaky Simon is now. The uber-feminist stuff makes no sense in the context of the rest of the book, which is really about hookers finding Prince Charming ("Pretty Woman" style).
The choreography is a disgrace; why does Wayne Cilento continue to work, after this stuff and "Wicked"? There is no acknowledgement of his debt to Fosse--he recycles wht seems to be about half of the original stuff.
Having seen Gwen Verdon in this as a child, in a role written and tailored for her particular talents, including her ability to "dance" Fosse, is unforgettable. But unlike the discussions of "Funny Girl" on another string, Verdon never was Streisand, and so this is easier to reinterpret.(I don't mean less talented, just never a superstar in the rare Streisnd mold).
Updated On: 6/28/05 at 11:20 AM
#3re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 11:24am
me3 is a man/woman of few words.
The truly beautiful should be lawfully restricted from wearing clothing; and the truly butt-ugly should be lawfully mandated from going naked.
Updated On: 6/28/05 at 11:24 AM
MasterLcZ
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/12/03
#4re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 11:30am
LOVE the new icon, BadPapa! Just guys bein' ...GUYS.
I agree with Gymman on all counts. I actually think a non-Fosse CHARITY could work, but one would need a far more inventive choreographer than Cilento to pull it off.
And I think Christina would make a dynomite Billie Dawn.
"Christ, Bette Davis?!?!"
#5re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 11:35am
No ending? What are you smoking? I absolutely love the "Bravest Individual" reprise. Perfect way to end the show. Jesus - how much longer did you want them to drag the show on? Oscar dumped her, Charity rejected him back, she is heartbroken, but lets the world know she is ok. What more do you want?
Charity is a classic show. With one of Broadways BEST scores in history, by one of the best composers in history.
Oh and this coming from someone who says Mama Mia and Aida are their favorite shows - dosen't suprise me.
Updated On: 6/28/05 at 11:35 AM
#6re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 11:48am
Thanks, Master. What is it with Cilento???? He's a hack, yet he works all the time. What I don't get is why he did not throw all the Fosse out, or recreate it in the sense that Reinking did for "Chicago"? The bits of Fosse make us want more; the Cilento is without style or grace--"Brass Band" is awful! i know he was in the original"Chorous Line" but is he still living on that rep?
BTW__Applegate and O'Hare (and Rob Bartlett) were sweet, patient, and charming at the stage door.
#7re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 11:56am
As much as I wanted more Fosse, and really wanted Ann Reinking to choreograph this..
I think Cilento did great with Big Spender, and The Frug.
#8re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 11:57am
I thought it stunk big time. Mainly because of Cilento's lazy, mediocre work, along with really poor production aspects, a leady lady who wasn't supported enough by director and choreographer, and some very miscast and badly directed supporting players.
I dug Dennis O'Hare though. Robbed of a tony nomination completely.
#9re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 11:58amYes--but these are the ones he steals more or less whole from Fosse (although the dancers in Fosse have much more specific personalities, characters expressed through dance).
bwaybaby891
Featured Actor Joined: 2/8/05
#10re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 12:19pmOne question. Could Christina Applegate have handled the full Fosse choreography? That is some pretty tough stuff that takes an amazing dancer to pull off for 8 shows a week.
"He who falls in love with himself will have no rivals"
-Benjamin Franklin
#11re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 12:55pm
She wouldn't have had to. She was never asked to. Sweet Charity (2005) was never planned as a "Fosse Tribute" show.
And Cilento has been around for 30 plus years, choreographing much more than Wicked and Sweet Charity. To demean his entire career with a "he's a hack", is disrespectful,
Hell, I don't even like most of the choreography in this show, but at least I have the manners not to badmouth someone's entire career based on this show!!
"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."
#12re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 1:15pmNot badmouthing his entire career based on one show--I mentioned his 2 most recent abysmal efforts. Why should I "respect" someone who produces this kind of poor work? It doesn't deserve any "respect."
#14re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 1:20pmYes, BB-- he is. I imagine he is well connected and well liked, but not considered top rate by anyone. Otherwise, I can't figure why he would continue to get jobs. He appears to be very lucky as well--how else explain a Tony nom for this dreck? (Maybe there were no other eligible shows to fill out the category.)
#15re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 1:21pmWell it is always a disappointment when you see a show and your two favorite numbers become your least favorite. One of the reasons I loved the Original Frug so much was because the orchestrations really got me into a fun mood for that number. What is being played now doesn't even sound like the same piece. I have the same issue with Rhythm of Life, but oh well, others love the changes.
#16re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 1:25pmwow... after looking on IBDB Wayne has lots of credits, but most were flops... thats sad.
"Picture "The View," with the wisecracking, sympathetic sweethearts of that ABC television show replaced by a panel of embittered, suffering or enraged Arab women" -the Times review of Black Eyed
#17re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 1:25pmI thought "There's Gotta Be Something Better Than This" was one of the laziest dances I've ever seen staged.
#18re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 1:27pm
You people are COLD!!!
Now, I have to say, I AGREE with most of what you are saying...I was not a fan a Wicked, and hoped for better work in Sweet Charity. I, too would have liked to have seen either ALL Fosse or no Fosse in this show. To go back and forth like he did was a mistake.
I just don't see him as a hack. If he was universally panned by critics and audiences alike for his work in every effort....yes, he's a hack. BUT, there are LOTS of people out there loving his work in Wicked and Charity. Just not yo
And...anyone able to work in theater is "lucky".
"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."
#19re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 1:30pmHe is not respected by a lot of theatre professionals. I think he has gotten by on his "A Chorus Line" credit alone.
#20re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 1:30pmi didnt know he was married...
"Picture "The View," with the wisecracking, sympathetic sweethearts of that ABC television show replaced by a panel of embittered, suffering or enraged Arab women" -the Times review of Black Eyed
#21re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 1:41pmYeah, straight guys shouldn't be allowed to choreograph.
#23re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 1:45pm
Caroline QTboo..
I went to IBDB too! What's missing is all his work at Encores...I guess they only include Broadway opening shows on that site.
Please keep in mind...I am in no way even a fan of Cilento...I just think calling him a hack, not respected by theater professionals, lucky, etc is disrespectful.
Gymman, I am not asking you to "respect" his work in Sweet Charity. Or Wicked, or even his career. I was responding to this line: "i know he was in the original"Chorous Line" but is he still living on that rep?"
No, actually, he's not. WE may not like his work, but this does not mean that others don't.
"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."
#24re: sweet charity
Posted: 6/28/05 at 2:08pm
What's true, though, if you look at reviews of shows he has done, they are overwhelmingly negative (NYT); he was savaged by critics for Charity, yet got a Tony nom, which suggests his very "insider" status. As Caroline points out, most of his works have not done well.
Whether people enjoy his work or not is irrelevent; popularity has nothing, alas, to do with art, or even fine craft. If it did, "Into the Woods' would still be running, and "Wicked" would have closed a year ago.
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