FX's "FEUD: Bette and Joan" starring JESSICA LANGE and SUSAN SARANDON (March 5th @ 10PM)- Page 9

[javero]

Posted: 4/28/17 at 9:14am

Finally watched the finale last night...superb writing, superb acting all around especially from Lange, superb sets, superb lighting, super wardrobe, superb music, etc.  And that not-so-subtle dig at Ms Dunaway was everything!!!

[javero]

Posted: 4/28/17 at 1:06pm

.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/28/17 at 3:21pm

Sarandon miraculously avoided camp in that scene and wisely played it as if fighting Bette's underlying impulse toward sentimentality.   And not without belated regret.  Any other choice would have disastrously further slanted our already majorly skewed sympathies to Crawford.

Yeah...the script and the direction for the last episode (or two) were all about playing up sympathy for Crawford.  Hence, Sarandon's reverse-drag take on the delivery of the fabled line.  Bette paused to decide whether to be the real Bette or the Media's expectation of "Bette" and ultimately chose to continue giving the public what they want as opposed to...well, whatever the series was trying to manufacture.  It's no surprise to see it played differently.  Even her Margo Channing "bumpy night" line is usually misquoted and/or camped up for effect.  The delivery of those lines is never about historical accuracy, but about the speaker's performance.

[carnzee]

Posted: 4/28/17 at 3:56pm

I think both of the leading ladies are great actresses but not very good imitators. But that's why Meryl Streep is so respected, because she's both. 

If I had no idea who Joan and Bette were, and FEUD was all I knew about them, I would totally  understand  why Joan was a gay icon. I don't think I would understand why Sarandon's Bette was a gay icon. 

And yes, Lange for all the awards!  Even the ones she's not eligible for! Lol. 

[Steve C.]

Posted: 4/28/17 at 4:50pm

Thank you Gypsy for the correction to my post.

 

I think I'll watch the last episode once more before delete It. Where are my kleenex?

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/28/17 at 11:49pm

If I had no idea who Joan and Bette were, and FEUD was all I knew about them, I would totally  understand  why Joan was a gay icon. I don't think I would understand why Sarandon's Bette was a gay icon.

I've never thought of Joan as a "gay icon".  Only Faye Dunaway as Joan as a camp icon for drag queens and clips played in gay video bars.  But I never got the feeling the show was to be about either of them as gay icons, which is why I don't think either of them were directed to be simply imitating the actresses as closely as possible.  It would have detracted from any storytelling or emotion and the obvious parade of "greatest hits" would have satisfied no one.  But if the show was about gay icons, then I'd see your point as Joan was the focus and placed on a pedestal by the end.  Bette was a supporting role and seemed to exist only as a catalyst and the trail guide to our perceptions of Joan.

[carnzee]

Posted: 4/29/17 at 7:08am

Well, the Victor buono character referenced how much Bette meant to the gay community at least once. 

Buy I was trying to state in a different way a point I made earlier in the thread, that while Sarandon was admirable in many ways, I felt she failed to capture something of Bette's fabulousness, for lack of a better term. Jessica has a certain campy quality that really made her Joan evoke the real person. 

By imitation, I'm not thinking about drag performers, I meant like Meryl Streep as Margaret Thatcher. I mean when the actor loses themselves in the historical character they play, which I understand is a tall order. 

I think the series would have been more balanced had they shown Bette's final years, her struggles after her stroke, etc. 

 

[javero]

Posted: 4/29/17 at 9:55am

"I think the series would have been more balanced had they shown Bette's final years, her struggles after her stroke, etc."

She suffered the stroke in 1983, several years after Joan's passing and shortly after her other arch rival Kate Hepburn had won another Oscar.  I think it's safe to assume that the ship had sailed on any further opportunities to mine the Joan-Bette feud by that time.

Perhaps due to the costs of her health care late in life, Bette's estate had a valuation of less than a million dollars at the time of her death.  See Bette Davis Estate Near $1 Million; 2 Daughters, Grandsons Left Out

Joan had an estimated net worth of $8 million at the time of her death.  There's a copy of her last will and testament online at Joan Crawford's Last Will and Testament.

By most accounts, neither was in the running for Mother of the Year.

 

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/29/17 at 10:08am

 

Cate Blanchett will school the unfortunate Miss Sarandon is how it's DONE:

 

NEW YORK TIMES: Cate Blanchett to Star in ‘All About Eve’ in London

 

[Mark-Alexis]

Posted: 4/29/17 at 1:58pm

carnzee said: "Well, the Victor buono character referenced how much Bette meant to the gay community at least once. 

Buy I was trying to state in a different way a point I made earlier in the thread, that while Sarandon was admirable in many ways, I felt she failed to capture something of Bette's fabulousness, for lack of a better term. Jessica has a certain campy quality that really made her Joan evoke the real person. 

By imitation, I'm not thinking about drag performers, I meant like Meryl Streep as Margaret Thatcher. I mean when the actor loses themselves in the historical character they play, which I understand is a tall order. 

I think the series would have been more balanced had they shown Bette's final years, her struggles after her stroke, etc. 

 

 

"

 

Meryl isn't as emotionally raw as Lange (side note: I think Streep knows this, too, and that's why Lange is the only actress she's mentioned REPEATEDLY in interviews. Posted a great one below).  Also, I think she was great as the older Thatcher, but awkward as middle-aged Thatcher.

Her Julia Childs was great fun, but she didn't imitate her perfectly either.

 

When it comes to how Lange and Sarandon handled the daunting task of taking on Bette and Joan, I think they did a fabulous job.  They focused on the heart of the story and of their characters.

Still, they did their share of fantastic mimicry.

Lange especially nailed all of her recreation scenes.  Sarandon struggled with Baby Jane, but was great everywhere else.

 

Meryl on Lange: https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=whqATHvd9Ew

 

Lange's featurette for Feud: https://mobile.twitter.com/JLangeDaily/status/858141333072076803

 

Side-by-sides of all of Feud's recreations: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MxiX6NGf0ig

[carnzee]

Posted: 4/29/17 at 11:45pm

Thanks for sharing the links, Mark-Alexis (is that a Dynasty reference?).  Sorry if I seem overly critical, but FEUD is like my Star Wars lol. I just care about these ladies and this story. I'm glad that the writers and these actresses understood these women. 

One criticism of Meryl made by Pauline Kael and others is that her performances can be calculated. I don't get that with Jessica at all. 

I rewatched Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte the other night. Such a great movie, I like it better than Baby Jane. Too bad Joan didn't stay with it, but DeHaviland is lovely. 

[Mark-Alexis]

Posted: 4/30/17 at 1:25am

carnzee said: "Thanks for sharing the links, Mark-Alexis (is that a Dynasty reference?).  Sorry if I seem overly critical, but FEUD is like my Star Wars lol. I just care about these ladies and this story. I'm glad that the writers and these actresses understood these women. 

One criticism of Meryl made by Pauline Kael and others is that her performances can be calculated. I don't get that with Jessica at all. 

I rewatched Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte the other night. Such a great movie, I like it better than Baby Jane. Too bad Joan didn't stay with it, but DeHaviland is lovely. 

 

"

 

lol. No, that's my real name. My mom named me  Mark after my father and Alexis after a boxer (Alexis Arguello) she fancied back in the 70's/80's.  

Her story goes that she couldn't decide and was in such pain (complicated delivery) and she asked them to "use both".  So, they hyphenated the name.  Kinda like Marc Anthony.  

I go by Alex.  Also, you're very welcome and please don't apologize for your opinion.  It's yours and it counts

Also, the Lange mention is @ 4 minutes in the video I shared above.

 

[Mark-Alexis]

Posted: 4/30/17 at 1:30am

Here's Meryl in 2012/13 on Watch What Happens Live!  She mentions a role she lost to Lange (Patsy Cline) as the role she most wished she had done.

Then she goes on to call Lange "divine".

 http://www.bravotv.com/watch-what-happens-live/season-7/videos/after-show-more-meryl

If you can't already tell, Lange and Streep are my two favorite actresses. :-P

Updated On: 4/30/17 at 01:30 AM

[Steve C.]

Posted: 4/30/17 at 1:36am

and it's your Happy 1 yr anniversary on BWW.

enjoy your posts Mark-Alexis !

[Mark-Alexis]

Posted: 4/30/17 at 2:27am

I didn't realize.  Thank you for reminding me and for the compliment! 

 

 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/30/17 at 8:42pm

Cate Blanchett will school the unfortunate Miss Sarandon is how it's DONE:

Too bad the article makes no mention of Mary Orr, the authopr of the story on which All About Eve adapted.  But I would hope that van Hove of this new adaptation (Mary Orr adapted her own story for the stage as well) will not expect Blanchett to impersonate Bette's performance in any way.  I think this will be apples/oranges to what Sarandon was asked to do.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 4/30/17 at 9:15pm

It would be hard for Blanchett to channel Davis when she's spending the evening barefoot and drenched and covered in blood (I jest, of course, but that's been a running comment by many when hearing that Van Hove is at the helm).

[Steve C.]

Posted: 5/3/17 at 8:03pm

Just found these today...my goodness! Lucy and Vivian Vance meet Joan Crawford from the Lucy Show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnt3idmz-08

(scrubbing the stairs in her mansion)

and this is the entire episode...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw6fstVOFxw&t=10s

 

[Cat Guy]

Posted: 5/3/17 at 9:13pm

Technically, Joan and Bette did appear together in another film:  "Hollywood Canteen".  It was sort of a revue, and Joan's one scene was a cameo.

A bit of personal trivia.  My mother's first husband was an extra and bit player in movies during the 30's and 40's.  He can be seen here in Joan's cameo as one of the soldiers.  He also had a one-line scene with S. Z. Sakall.  He told my mother that Joan seemed nice (although he had no interaction with her), and that she was shorter than he imagined she would be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LITdSZVRGdw

 

[Mark-Alexis]

Posted: 5/7/17 at 9:03am

^ How cool!

[ArtMan]

Posted: 5/8/17 at 9:07pm

I finally got to watch the last four episodes on FX's preview pass.  Unfortunately, during the final episode the time ran out.  The last scene I saw was Bette commenting on Joan's passing.  Was there another scene after that?  Thanks in advance.

[Mark-Alexis]

Posted: 5/8/17 at 10:09pm

Yup.  There's about 5-10 more minutes.  A great moment at the end, followed by cards dedicated to each person.

[ArtMan]

Posted: 5/8/17 at 10:49pm

Thanks, Mark.  I'm hoping in a couple of days or so I can try the FX preview pass, once it reloads, and fast forward to the last 20 minutes.  

[Mark-Alexis]

Posted: 5/12/17 at 3:29am

Rewatched the series. I'm a puddle again and it hasn't even been a month since this thing wrapped.

One of the most riveting and heartbreaking pieces of film/television of the last decade.

Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon are like two white-hot flying myths.

Along with "Horace and Pete", this is my favorite thing Lange has done in the last 15 years.

[Steve C.]

Posted: 5/22/17 at 9:44pm

The "Feud" moves to TCM tonight.

Baby Jane is on now. Strait Jacket w/Joan is on next at 10:30.

They even have one called "Die Die My Darling" with Tallulah Bankhead and Stephanie Powers after that.

Then Debbie Reynolds/Shelley Winters slasher movie...followed by "The Nanny" w/ Bette...

(Did Ryan Murphy program this night?)

Set your DVR!