Oliver!: Good show or bad show?- Page 2

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 12:06pm

I love me some Shani...she deserved an oscar nom, imo.

[ActingAndy]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 1:10pm

If revived in the next ten years, Jenny Powers should play Nancy

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 1:46pm

I loves me some Oliver!

I just got hooked on this show again last week.

[theatrejoe]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 1:55pm

I love this show! I saw the Cameron Mackintosh production in London back in 1997 starring Barry Humphries as Fagin, then I saw it on the UK tour starring Russ Abbot. It remains one of the best shows I've ever seen. It should definitely be revived!

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 2:06pm

A fantastic show.

The book could use a little re-working, but it's still great.

I love the score. And Fagin is one of the best roles in musical theatre.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 2:21pm

Doodle...agreed! She was just marvelous. Loved her voice, her hair, and she just broke your heart!!

[Capt_Fluellen]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 2:28pm

Priest - what you said about the character 'Fagin' is absolutely correct. One of the great male musical theatre roles of all time.

And by the way, Jim Dale was perfect as Fagin in the London revival.

Great Role + Great Performance = Great Show

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 3:11pm

There was a thread on OLIVER recently which I contributed to. I saw the OBC in the 1963 production which received mostly rave reviews and ran for 774 performances which was a good run for its time. I enjoyed the musical very much and loved the book and score and overall production with its fabulous sets and engaging cast. I saw another excellent production in London in the 1980's. I am surprised that the Patti LuPone-Ron Moody production in 1984 was a failure. I think it deserves another chance on Broadway. I'm not so sure I would like Disney to take it on, though. Disney makes me nervous when it comes to theatre.I do have to commend Disney for refurbishing the New Amsterdam Theatre, though.

Updated On: 5/23/07 at 03:11 PM

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 3:21pm

One of the problems with the 1984 revival was the bad press for Ron Moody who, it was considered by many, to be portraying Fagin in a very anti-semitic way. I remember the hoopla over that. He was still nominated for the Tony, tho. I cant imagine how LuPone wasnt ravishing as Nancy, but her reviews werent good. I didnt live here yet, so missed it.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 4:06pm

I find Dicken's central characters sooooo BORING. Twist, Copperfield, Pip all just sit there and do nothing while the world around them is populated with active interesting people.

That said.

Oliver is probably the best musical adapation you are going to get out of that source material.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 4:24pm

I love Great Expectations, but Pip is quite boring.

[Dancin Thru Life]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 4:30pm

OMG! Dame Edna was FAGIN?!?!?!?

That must have been wild!

Come to think of it...how fun would it be to have Barry do the role of Fagin AS Dame Edna?!?!? It could actually bring some life to the show! HAHA

[philcrosby]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 4:33pm

OLIVER is a marvelous show ... shame the Palladium revival ruined the orhestrations.

[simon_wilkie]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 6:10pm

As I'm about to sit a BA English exam on Oliver Twist (the Dickens, not the Bart version!) on Friday I decided it would be good practice to post my two cents!

Firstly- Oliver is so sophisticated because he is really not a street urchin, but a middle class heir. He must be shown to be good really, never lowering himself to coarsness of the Dodger and the rest of the gang, in order for us to (or at least the original audience) to believe that he is good. The novel is didactic with an explicit purpose to change people's opinions. By having the angelic, well spoken Oliver as the protagonist Dicken's achieves his purpose. This for me also explains why Olvier is such a minor character. He doesn't play a large role in the novel. Dickens saves his moral and plot intricacies for his meatier characters. The evil, mentally disturbed Bill Sikes; the dodgy Fagin deperately avoiding the gallows and the tart with a heart Nancy- the bridge between good and evil.

Also, Fagin is Jewish- no question about it. He is given explicit Jewish characteristics by Dickens and referred to constantly as "The Jew". Dicken's (no more than a casual anti-Semite at least) explained that it was a truism that most people like Fagin were Jewish. This is a correct statement and explains why he is explicitly Jewish. I know sensitivities around anti-Semitism are heightened, quite rightly, since 1945, however to complain that Fagin is too-Jewish is simply to miss the point of the novel. It is NOT anti-Semitic, just a reflection on Victorian London. One need only look at Cruikshank's illustrations in the novel to see the exaggerated physiognomy of Fagin and compare this with Moody's make-up to see a striking similarity that bears true to the original source material.

As for the show itself: I love it. Yes it loses some of the darkness, but not much. This is especially obvious in the film. But from what I've seen and heard from Mackintosh's 1994 production it seems to have regained some of the Victorian darkness of the novel. Sikes' "My Name" is a very dark and moody number which was a great addition.

As for Mistress Corney, Bumble and Sowerberry (the three over-blown Dickensian types)they are perfectly shown in their odd, nasty/comedic ways. My only regret is there is not a man in a white waistcoat to have a number about the boy being hanged or a Mr Grimwhig to compensate for Brownlow's nausea!

Also, as for the Maylie subplot- who needs it! The characters are typed angelic stock characters who are not missed in the musical.

All in all a good cockney knees-up at a time when cockneys needed one, whilst still capturing the essence of Dickens' masterpiece.

IMO of course!!!

Simon

P.S. I don't get "Blood Brothers" either. What people can get from depressing scousers for 2hrs is beyond me!

P.P.S. Wooo Liverpool didn't win the Champions League. If they had we wouldn't have heard about anything else for years! Well done Milan!

[EdmundOG]

Posted: 5/23/07 at 7:03pm

I love Great Expectations, but Pip is quite boring.
==========

You should watch the South Park episode based on it. It's done Masterpiece Theatre style, hosted in live action by Malcolm McDowell ("Hello... I'm a British person."), and follows the plot very accurately... up to a certain point.