2019/20 season shaping to be another jukebox season- Page 3

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 2:01pm

barcelona20 said: "Lot666 said: "barcelona20 said: "It's the best show I've ever seen too and I've been seeing shows for 26yrs. What is best to that person doesn't have to be best for you obviously. Its subjective."

You clearly need to see more shows then."

You clearly need to be less of a d!ck then."

Aww, how sweet of you to say! ps. it's still insane to believe that out of all the musicals ever created, that JLP is the best show ever seen. Everyone can have an opinion, but that doesn't make them correct."

Right, and your opinion that its insane to believe its the best ever, also doesn't make you correct. Funny how that works! 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/2/19 at 4:29pm

OlBlueEyes said: "Tricky question. To associate "Gershwin" and "jukebox" seems like heresy.

First, the musical is based on the film. Have any jukebox musicals been based on films?

Gershwin began his career writing pop vocals, most for Broadway musicals. As he progressed he grew increasingly interested in orchestral music, although he had not stopped writing tunes for musicals at the time of his death. Many of his pop standards were included in the MGM musical, but alongside a number of his standalone orchestral pieces. Concerto in F, I think, as well as the title piece, which had been written before the film.

So I have to weasel that the film is a sort of hybrid. A half dozen of Gershwin's most popular hit songs augmented by two orchestral pieces, including "An American in Paris" to which the concluding ballet is performed. Orchestral pieces are anathema to jukebox musicals. The "Concerto in F" is also added to the musical.

I call it an original musical (putting the filmto one side) since the plot, such as it is, is not connected with the songwriters and orchestral pieces are prominent, especially "An American in Paris" for the concluding ballet"

Sorry but that's nonsense. You have offered not a shred of reasoned basis for the distinction you make. 

 

[barcelona20]

Posted: 5/3/19 at 8:57am

Right, and your opinion that its insane to believe its the best ever, also doesn't make you correct. Funny how that works!"

So f I said that Starlight Express is the best show ever, you would take no issue with that?

Updated On: 5/3/19 at 08:57 AM

[raddersons]

Posted: 5/3/19 at 9:05am

barcelona20 said: "So f I said that Starlight Express is the best show ever, you would take no issue with that?"

CALL ME RUSTY IF YOU DARE

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 5/3/19 at 9:18am

barcelona20 said: "Right, and your opinion that its insane to believe its the best ever, also doesn't make you correct. Funny how that works!"

So f I said that Starlight Express is the best show ever, you would take no issue with that?"

Why should I? If you enjoyed it, great! Its all subjective, which you cannot understand for the life of you, instead you attack other peoples opinions for them not being the same as yours. Its pathetic and childish. 

[barcelona20]

Posted: 5/3/19 at 9:30am

Why should I? If you enjoyed it, great! Its all subjective, which you cannot understand for the life of you, instead you attack other peoples opinions for them not being the same as yours. Its pathetic and childish."

It's called having good taste and being an intelligent theatre-goer.  I admire your passion in this silly debate.

[Lot666]

Posted: 5/3/19 at 10:14am

Mike Barrett said: "barcelona20 said: "Why should I? If you enjoyed it, great! Its all subjective, which you cannot understand for the life of you, instead you attack other peoples opinions for them not being the same as yours. Its pathetic and childish."

It's called having good taste and being an intelligent theatre-goer. I admire your passion in this silly debate."

And I admire how rude and judgmental you are."

Do yourself a favor, Mike - make use of the site's block feature at Settings > Ignore Message Board Users.

[barcelona20]

Posted: 5/3/19 at 10:33am

And I admire how rude and judgmental you are."

Do yourself a favor, Mike - make use of the site's block feature at Settings > Ignore Message Board Users."

Yikes. Take a Be More Chill pill.

[BeNice]

Posted: 5/3/19 at 10:44am

OneL99 said: "I'm going to use my 1st post on this board to say....Jagged Little Pill is the best show I have ever seen. Easily. And I've seen pretty much everything (some people buy clothes, I drive to NYC from Boston several times a month...” 
 

OneL99 welcome to the message boards! It seems you are an informed, thoughtful, and passionate theatre goer like many of us and should be encouraged to join these boards, discuss theatre, and express your opinion. I honestly look forward to hearing your opinions of other shows in the future!

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 5/3/19 at 10:50am

BeNice said: "OneL99 said: "I'm going to use my 1st post on this board to say....Jagged Little Pill is the best show I have ever seen. Easily. And I've seen pretty much everything (some people buy clothes, I drive to NYC from Boston several times a month...”


OneL99 welcome to the message boards! It seems you arean informed, thoughtful, and passionate theatre goer like many of usandshould be encouraged to join these boards,discuss theatre, and express your opinion.I honestly lookforward to hearing your opinions of other shows in the future!"

This!!! Welcome :) Im excited for JLP honestly. It sounds like it needs to be tightened a bit but the potential is totally there. A more intimate house like the Broadhurst is smart too. 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/3/19 at 1:53pm

Could you say that, although Jukebox musicals are a safer investment and have a higher hit ratio than original musicals, only the latter, although riskier, can lift you to the highest highs?

How are you determining "higher hit ratio"?  By the total number of jukebox musicals produced on Broadway vs the total number of original score musicals produced on Broadway over the history of each sub-genre?  Because that wouldn't make sense.  Or are you just looking at the aggregate of new Broadway musicals of the last couple of decades?  Because I don't think that's true, either.

Carousel, South Pacific, West Side Story, Company, Sunday in the Park, Ragtime, Gypsy, La Cage aux Folles, Cabaret, Book of Mormon, Hamilton.

Are there jukebox musicals that you would feel comfortable including in this group?

Well...that's assuming everyone was "lifted to the highest highs" by all of those shows, which is not how I particularly felt about some of those.  I have certainly enjoyed a variety of emotional highs by Tommy, Contact, Movin' Out, Mamma Mia, Rock of Ages, Xanadu and American Idiot. I'm not sure what "lifted to the highest of highs" really means, but when I speak about musicals I've enjoyed the most, I don't qualify them based on the originality of the score because it doesn't necessarily correlate with my emotional response.

Aww, how sweet of you to say! ps. it's still insane to believe that out of all the musicals ever created, that JLP is the best show ever seen. Everyone can have an opinion, but that doesn't make them correct.

Actually, yes it does.  It's precisely what differentiates statements of opinion from statements of fact, which is where you seem to be either confused or ill-informed.  Your incredulity in the opinion doesn't disprove it.  For example, if someone says "My favorite color is orange", how would you prove that the opinion is false, or "incorrect"?  If someone says JLP is the best show they've ever seen, you cannot prove their opinion is incorrect, regardless whether they've seen two shows or two thousand, and your self-confidence in your taste or intelligence is irrelevant.  Not that it really matters because as soon as you feel the need to disrespect another's opinion, especially by boasting of your own superiority in taste and intelligence, you have effectively negated any call for respect of your own opinions.  So, in fact, it is you that is incorrect in this case.

Updated On: 5/3/19 at 01:53 PM

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 5/3/19 at 5:02pm

HogansHero said: "OlBlueEyes said: "Tricky question. To associate "Gershwin" and "jukebox" seems like heresy.


Sorry but that's nonsense. You have offered not a shred of reasoned basis for the distinction you make.

"

How fortunate I am to have Mr. Hogan himself deign to critique my poor post. Sadly, my post appears to have so little merit that its error was not even worth an explanation.

Mr. Hogan, first let me express my sympathy for the early and untimely deaths of so many members of your cast, including yourself.

I have really only two thoughts pertaining to jukebox musicals. The first is that I like to compare American musical theater with European classical opera. I prefer to believe that Rodgers, Gershwin, Arlen, Kern, Weill, Bernstein, Hart, Hammerstein, et. al did more than just write 'show tunes' for Perry and Bing to croon. Second, I consider it necessary for a new Broadway show to feature a preponderance of original music. It is the music that distinguishes musical theater from lesser art forms. A successful music will often have the audience leaving the theater humming the melodies. If the audience enters the theater humming the music, then you have something like an extravagant tribute band.

My last thought on the matter is that I don't require anyone to agree with my comments. They can just take them, or leave them, and I am not going to swoop down on them and insult them by calling their thoughts "nonsense."

 

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 5/4/19 at 6:36pm

Aww, how sweet of you to say! ps. it's still insane to believe that out of all the musicals ever created, that JLP is the best show ever seen. Everyone can have an opinion, but that doesn't make them correct.

Who was this addressed to? I have never heard of JLP and I have no plans to attend.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/4/19 at 10:29pm

OlBlueEyes said: "Mr. Hogan, first let me express my sympathy for the early and untimely deaths of so many members of your cast, including yourself.

Actually, aside from myself, I don't think very many of the other cast members died prematurely. Col. Klink went on to play Herr Schultz in the first revival of Cabaret on Broadway (a role with little in common with his namesake in our show, a distant cousin I suspect).

I have really only two thoughts pertaining to jukebox musicals. The first is that I like to compare American musical theater with European classical opera. I prefer to believe that Rodgers, Gershwin, Arlen, Kern, Weill, Bernstein, Hart, Hammerstein, et. aldid more than just write 'show tunes' for Perry and Bing to croon.

I don't disagree with the notion that these people did more than "just write 'show tunes' for Perry and Bing,"  but that does not mean that when their songs are shoehorned into a show (or even another show) the result is not a jukebox musical, and that's what I still don't think you've provided a reasoned basis for distinguishing. Feel free to offer one if you have it. That's what I was hoping to hear.   

Second, I consider it necessary for a new Broadway show to feature a preponderance of original music.

I agree that it should. (Obviously you are not suggesting that this is the rule. Would that it were.)

It is the music that distinguishes musical theater from lesser art forms.

I have a problem with the "lesser" language. It's enough to say it distinguishes it with getting all comparative on me. The music of musicals can be distinguished from, say, Wagner, but I don't think you seriously mean to suggest Wagner is a lesser art form. 

A successful music will often have the audience leaving the theater humming the melodies.

This is a popular topic around here. I think the consensus is: sometimes yes, sometimes no.

If the audience enters the theater humming the music, then you have something like an extravagant tribute band.

I don't disagree with that.

You are of course entitled to your comments, thoughts, opinions, etc. But around here most people post comments to spur discussion, reaction, etc., and not just to speak into a vacuum. And I think most people expect to be called out by others when what they say doesn't make sense to them. You see, we agree on quite a bit, but that's not some insulation blanket. I enjoyed reading your comments, but I thought OlBlueEyes had tougher skin than that.
 

 

[Mike Barrett]

Posted: 5/5/19 at 12:20am

It’s so early and I’m less familiar with newer musicals in early production, but could we potentially have an all jukebox nominated musicals for the Tony’s? Just off what we know could transfer, Tina, JLP, Moulin Rouge, A Girl From The North Country, it’d only take one more jukebox show to take its spot which isn’t totally unlikely. Are there any shows with original scores coming up that have award worthy potential?

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 5/5/19 at 1:25am

Sorry but that's nonsense. You have offered not a shred of reasoned basis for the distinction you make. 

I'm afraid that we're just going to have to disagree on this. I not only find this coarse, but also lacking in any indication of what you agreed or disagreed with. It really seems as if you found nothing that you like.

I don't see where it's your job to patrol the board to find out the toughness of the skin of various posters. Being civil to everyone is very much preferred. Preferred very much by all the lurkers who are afraid to open their mouths here.

I think that we can get along very well here without each other.

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/5/19 at 9:20am

OlBlueEyes said: "I'm afraid that we're just going to have to disagree on this. I not only find this coarse, but also lacking in any indication of what you agreed or disagreed with. It really seems as if you found nothing that you like."

Did you not read my immediately prior post and its interlineated comments? 

That said, if you want to ignore me, as Glinda says, you've always had the power, my dear. 

P.S. Civility is about how one treats another person, not the ideas they put forth. Although people transform threads into discussion of other posters, with very rare exceptions not present here, When I post, it is all about ideas.   

 

[Brit33444]

Posted: 5/5/19 at 12:38pm

Are there actually any confirmed original score musicals coming out next season? Or even possibilities besides Six?

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 5/5/19 at 12:52pm

August Rush seems like a possibility

[bear88]

Posted: 12/7/19 at 1:48am

This thread got particularly contentious, but I'm bringing it back because I didn't want to start a new one just to whine a bit.

Here's my problem: I read about and hear clips from the new collection of jukebox musicals and it's kind of depressing. I'm not adamantly opposed to jukebox musicals - shoot, I liked Head Over Heels and have seen my share - but the overload just seems too much.

I saw Adrienne Warren in Shuffle Along three years ago. I'd never heard of her, she was awesome, I looked forward to seeing her in something else. And now she's imitating Tina Turner. It's a good career move, the show seems to be popular, so good for her. But I'm not all that interested in seeing it. Reading comments that compare the book negatively to Ain't Too Proud, a reasonably fun show with a lousy, narrative-heavy book, don't inspire me.

Jagged Little Pill gets credit for coming up with an original story, but it sounds kind of ridiculous. And given that the album was a very specific collection of songs written by a young woman in a unique voice at a particular time, it feels kind of odd to read about all the standing ovations for the woman who sings her most famous song as a supporting character. But I saw Alanis Morrissette sing those songs a few months after the album was released. (That's my particular problem, I guess, but the show sounds like a mess.) It did inspire me to listen to the album for the first time in forever, so there's that.

Even Moulin Rouge!, which makes no bones about what it is, doesn't really excite me. I'm sure it is entertaining, as many people on this board has said, but it's still a combination of my two least inspiring things in theater: the movie adaption and the jukebox. Plus, it's really expensive.

These shows may all be better than they sound to me. I'm sure Warren makes a terrific Tina Turner. I'm sure Lauren Patten is good. I'm sure Moulin Rouge! brings plenty of entertainment. There are times when I just want to see a fun musical too. But reading about these shows doesn't make me wish I was in New York City.

The good news, if this keeps up, is that I'll focus more on local theater. I'm seeing a musical with an original score tonight (The Tale of Despereaux at the Berkeley Rep). Maybe I won't like it, but at least I'm feeling some anticipation about not knowing any of the songs beforehand.

Updated On: 12/7/19 at 01:48 AM