Cats - Why did it run for so long?- Page 4

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 3/22/12 at 9:02pm

Eric, EVITA may be a classic now, and God knows it seems a miracle compared to ALW's collaborations in the years since, but at the time it opened, it seemed sloppy and trite, especially compared to SWEENEY TODD the season before.

Yes, the performances and direction were praised, but with Rice and Webber coming from rock music, their use of near-rhymes and mis-accented words ("star qualiTEE") seemed amateurish. (Even ALW admits today he didn't know anything about Latin music and has rescored some of EVITA for the current revival.)

And it seemed so just when COMPANY/FOLLIES/ALNM, A CHORUS LINE and SWEENEY TODD seemed to be elevating the American musical to almost Shakespearean heights. (I exaggerate, but only a little.)

By comparison, EVITA seemed mediocre material, however skilled the production.

Yet it arrived extremely well hyped, with a large pre-sale and like CATS, though not to the same degree, seemed to be a hit simply because it was a hit.

Now will follow several posts from people saying they loved it from opening night and no doubt some people did. But that second act is interminable and rarely dramatic; if viewers and reviewers hadn't been used to the score from the concept album, Eva's hour-long death from cancer would have sunk the show, I believe.

(ETA but you are right that the hype machine grew as the decade progressed. Not quite enough to sell STARLIGHT EXPRESS, but enough to keep MISS SAIGON running.) Updated On: 3/22/12 at 09:02 PM

[After Eight]

Posted: 3/22/12 at 9:49pm

"I had firmly became obsessed with Sondheim and my adolescent, extreme self thought that these Megamusicals were weak and the death of the genre"

Funny, that's how I saw/see Sondheim's musicals.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 3/22/12 at 10:40pm

Seems many on here haven't really elaborated on how the Winter Garden Theatre was transformed for the 1982 Broadway incarnation of CATS.

The Winter Garden Theatre (before and after CATS) was a traditional proscenium stage theatre: regular seats, orchestra pit, stage, curtain, etc.

For CATS, the Winter Garden Theatre was basically gutted out completely to create the interactive and intimate setting the creative team intended: no proscenium; no orchestra pit; no curtains, etc.

The stage was basically a circular stage that was flush with the regular auditorium floor -- there was no separation which meant as you walked into the auditorium you could literally walk right onto the stage. Also, portions of the Orchestra section were grouped between oversized prop garbage which were exits for actors to rush onto the stage between seats. Oversized garbage were also placed in various areas of the auditorium along with the stage. The orchestra was hidden in the wings so you never saw them.

The entire roof over the audience was painted black and when the house light's dimmed, twinkling lights blinked throughout the performance giving you the essence of being outdoors in the nighttime.

THIS is what made seeing CATS at the Winter Garden Theatre a very special experience. Sadly, for all the obvious realities, this interactive and intimate staging could not be accomplished on tour thus many people (to this very day) assume that the CATS production they see on tour is the CATS that ran for 18 years on Broadway. It is not. Same show; different experience.

To give you an idea how modified and intimate the Winter Garden was for CATS, here is the seating chart at that time. When CATS closed in October 2000, it took a full year to convert the Winter Garden Theatre back to its former original proscenium stage theatre for MAMMA MIA!.


The original Winter Garden Theatre seating chart for CATS (1982-2000):

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/23/12 at 12:19am

But After8 you don't think much of ALW either, do you?

Gaveston--I appreciate that, and it makes sense. You lived that era obviously, so everything I say is conjecture. I'm staying stubborn though--from the reviews I've read of Evita's opening, while many maybe did begrudge its popular appeal, and perhaps it won the Tonys due to a weak season (much like Cats did), I wonder if some of the animosity towards the British shows was simply that--whether due to marketing or not--they DID catch a broad audience that seemed to be growing disinterested in New York shows.

The 70s are probably my favorite era for the Broadway musical (something Eight and I will not agree on, either), but from reading all the (American) press and books published then and in the 80s, they were seen as sign of the death of the American musical. A Chorus Line was seen as either a saviour or the mark of the end with a last hurrah, other 70s hits like Chicago, Pippin, The Magic Show (ha!) and even Annie which many found a charming throwback and it did very well, got far worse reviews than Evita did (as did many of the Sondheim shows back at the time).

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/23/12 at 12:57am

Brody wasn't the main difference between London and Broadway that in London the seats actually moved towards the stage at one point (something theatre purists probably hated), or am I making that up. I know at the Cats Theatre in Japan--built for the show, and I believe still running, it's even more elaborate.

[After Eight]

Posted: 3/23/12 at 6:59am

"But After8 you don't think much of ALW either, do you? "

No.

" I wonder if some of the animosity towards the British shows was simply that--whether due to marketing or not--they DID catch a broad audience that seemed to be growing disinterested in New York shows. "

I believe you're right here.


"The 70s are probably my favorite era for the Broadway musical (something Eight and I will not agree on, either),"

Absolutely disagree here. I feel they were the death knell of the musical. Maybe you're just not that familiar with the earlier eras. It's like saying Stephen King is one's favorite novelist of all time, never having read Proust or Joyce.


" but from reading all the (American) press and books published then and in the 80s, they were seen as sign of the death of the American musical."

They were right.


" other 70s hits like Chicago, Pippin, The Magic Show (ha!) and even Annie which many found a charming throwback and it did very well, got far worse reviews than Evita did (as did many of the Sondheim shows back at the time)."

No, no, no! Eric, I'm surprised the foremost world authority on Sondheim would keep making errors on the critical reception his shows received. Company got raves. Night Music got raves. Sweeney Todd, raves. Follies, mixed, but with several raves. And Annie got better reviews than Evita.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 3/23/12 at 10:32am

Brody wasn't the main difference between London and Broadway that in London the seats actually moved towards the stage at one point (something theatre purists probably hated), or am I making that up.

Actually, in London, the first three or four rows of the orchestra seats were attached to the turntable of the stage. When you entered the theatre, the set was backwards. I remember the moon was directly behind me and I was a bit confused having seen the show only on tour. The set slowly rotates 180 degrees during the climax of the overture giving you a slow pan of the set and theatre. I honestly had no idea it was going to happen and it added to the environmental experience. Gimmicky and manipulative, but very effective.

[ggersten]

Posted: 3/23/12 at 11:21am

I first saw Cats from way up in the second balcony in the Golden Gate Theatre in SF - the show was boring and uninvolved in that big barn.

Years later, my then very young daughter watched the "VHS" of the filmed show over and over and I promised her that one day I would take her to see Cats on Broadway. We were living in North Carolina at the time. And then of course, Cats announced it was closing, so we did the special trip to the Winter Garden Theatre. (First time I paid full price for tickets) And in that theatre, the show was AMAZING. It was enthralling and fun and exhilarating. My daughter vividly remembers many of the details to this day. We went to a bus and truck tour last spring with the blow-up set (they wouldn't let us go on stage during intermission) and Cats was once again a big ball of eh.
So, I understand how Cats ran for so long at the Winter Garden - because it was a great show in that venue.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 3/23/12 at 3:35pm

Eric, I can't remember whether EVITA or ANNIE had better reviews, but I think your decade-by-decade history is essentially correct.

In my account of EVITA, I should have mentioned that it arrived in New York with a preexisting following due to the concept album. So it was at least in part more like JCS than CATS.

CATS really seemed the beginning of of an invasion of shows that relied on spectacle over all other elements. There was the "cat show", the "chandelier show", the "helicopter show", and so forth. Whatever its faults, EVITA at least seemed to have been staged to tell a story rather than to compensate for the lack of one.

[Jonwo]

Posted: 3/23/12 at 4:07pm

Wasn't 42nd Street a huge hit despite the success of the British shows like Cats, Phantom etc but it had to move theatres twice in order to make way for them.

I would argue that the success of shows like Cats, Phantom, Miss Saigon etc lead to companies like Disney producing shows on Broadway.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 3/23/12 at 5:05pm

Disney had already tried out Snow White at Radio City in the 70s. I think they saw the theatricality and popularity of their animated musical film renaissance and ran with it. Cats was the sole family-friendly show for years and Disney brought in a new option. Mackintosh introduced a new form of branding musicals, but Disney had been toying with the idea of staging their properties for a long time. The film of Beauty and the Beast was a landmark for Disney, so it made perfect sense it would be the first Broadway venture.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/23/12 at 6:10pm

After8, Company did NOT get raves. LOL Unless you say critics thinking it hated women and asking if they enjoyed it or not is a rave.

[Idiot]

Posted: 3/24/12 at 2:21am

I had the same experience seeing the show at the Winter Garden v. seeing it at the old Shubert in Century City (Los Angeles). In Century City, you just sat there waiting for them to sing Memory.

At the Winter Garden, it was a blast -- even though the play itself kept interrupting all of that mesmerizing stagecraft.

[chewy5000]

Posted: 3/24/12 at 3:10am

42nd Street was a hit before the British even came to town. The shear buzz about both Cats and later Phantom saw it booted out of two houses.

I recall reading that Times Square was decked out with the iconic Cats eyes a year before it even opened, and the mystery, excitement and buzz was palpable.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 3/24/12 at 11:16am

I'm a fan of the show and I think there is substance to the show.

I think it's a fantasy for adults.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 3/24/12 at 2:09pm

I never really got the hatred for this show. There are far worse shows out there. I found CATS to be a wonderfully inventive, even magical piece of theater back when I saw it in 1983 at the Winter Garden.

Whenever a song from it *pops* up in my iTunes shuffle it transports me back to a very happy, more innocent time in my life. I actually get quite a bit of joy from it.

I have a "soft spot" for it, I guess.

CATS: Now and Forever.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 3/24/12 at 3:41pm

42ND STREET played the Winter Garden just after it had been beautifully restored complete with fresh gilding. I saw it soon after it opened. It was a very big hit and I loved it. I always thought that David Merrick moved the show to the Majestic because he could take in more money in that larger theatre. I have not returned to the Winter Garden since, except for attending the memorial service for Larry Kert, which was when CATS was playing. I saw the Winter Garden with garbage all around, for Cats, and bemoaned the physical atmosphere of one of my favorite theatres. It is there that I saw my first Broadway musical, PETER PAN, in 1954. Other shows that I enjoyed there include FUNNY GIRL and THE UNSINKABLE MOLLY BROWN. I have had no desire to see either CATS or MAMMA MIA, the only shows to have followed 42ND STREET(1980) into the Winter Garden. Will there ever be a new show there?

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 3/24/12 at 3:47pm

With all due respect Gypsy9, I can understand where you are coming from but you canNOT deny the fact that CATS and MAMMA MIA! have kept the Winter Garden UP and RUNNING...it's a legendary theater and it has been blessed with TWO popular and let's NOT forget LONG RUNNING HITS!

The theater is JUST FINE!!!

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 3/24/12 at 4:05pm

CarlosAlberto: I know what you say is true and I am truly thankful that the Winter Garden has been completely restored to its former glory following the departure of CATS. I just wish there was another show there that would appeal to me so that I could return to my roots. Incidentally, I think that the Winter Garden has unusually good sight lines. When I saw 42ND STREET, I was in the 8th row center so I didn't have to worry about sight lines, but what impressed me was that I was able to hear the orchestra and the singers directly, NOT through speakers. That thrill is gone from virtually all musical houses today. I am thankful that sound design has greatly improved from what it used to be, with sound distortion prevalent.