Supporting Audra's joke about being raped on-stage.- Page 3

[JuliesPoolie]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:04pm

It's also not right to say that Audra isn't allowed to have her own views about what is or isn't appropriate when it comes to the subject of rape.

Maybe everyone should keep their ideas about the subject to themselves since we all clearly have DIFFERENT views about it.

If people are going to spout their disgust for her touching acceptance speech, other people have the right to defend her.

She is one of the most talented, down-to-earth, and humble stars in the musical theatre world. She balances class while being someone you could totally have a beer with after a show.

And it's extremely disgusting that the people who have a problem with her rape comment have no real problem about the drug abuse comment. Drug addition, IMHO, is a much more serious thing than rape. Rape happens and it's over. Drug addition can stay with you for life and kill you.

Updated On: 6/11/12 at 04:04 PM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:09pm

Gaveston, I stand corrected. I meant to ask the question about Brecht's lyric, not the man himself.

Moreover, since you've brought up Fuegi, his position is that Brecht didn't write Threepenny Opera. Not a word of it According to him, it was written by Elizabeth Hauptmann.

Updated On: 6/11/12 at 04:09 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:12pm

^^^I'm sorry, Julies, but that's ridiculous. "Everyone has a different opinion so no one should discuss the subject" is an absurd argument. Of course people have a right to different opinions; that's WHY we have discussions.

And speaking for myself alone, "disgust" is much too strong a word for what I felt. "Slightly and very briefly uncomfortable" will cover it.

And speaking entirely from a technical view of joke writing, she would have got a bigger laugh if she had substituted the word "assault" for "rape", because the actual joke was "and doing drugs with David Alan Grier". It's the third clause in her sentence that is funny because it's close enough to what is actually possible. (I'm not suggesting they do drugs after a show, just that some people do.)

By use of the loaded word "rape", Ms. McDonald tripped over her own joke.

Updated On: 6/11/12 at 04:12 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:15pm

I found the way the rape scene is directed more offensive than the comment in Audra's Tony speech, but no one started 6 threads about that. So referencing a fictitious rape is unforgivable, but a woman directing another woman to lead a man offstage to rape her 8 times a week in front of 1100 people is A-OK? Where was the outrage about that?

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:15pm

Gaveston, I stand corrected. I meant to ask the question about Brecht's lyric, not the man himself.

No, in that case, *I* stand corrected, henrik. The casual quatrain you quoted is a great example of the kind of "rape" humor that doesn't get much of a response nowadays, and rightfully not.

[lovebwy]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:20pm

I AM SICK AND TIRED of all this political correctness. It was a funny joke people! Give it a rest.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:20pm

^^^I don't know, orangeskittles. If you were outraged, why didn't you start a thread? I haven't seen the production.

But for the record, it isn't the mere reference to a rape scene that is the issue in McDonald's speech. It's the unfortunate way she mentioned rape as an enjoyable event.

If she had said, "We have to enact a rape scene nightly and Phillip's skill as an actor makes a difficult moment easier to convey", no one would have said a word about it, because the reference would have clearly been to acting. And of course that's what she meant, it just isn't quite what she said.

[JuliesPoolie]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:21pm

skittles, it's the same reason Lifetime movies are so popular.

People love to watch it happen. We're just not allowed to talk about it.

Take it from The Fantasticks regarding rape. "It depends on what you pay!" In this case, over $100 a ticket to watch Audra get it as opposed to paying nothing to watch her talk about it on network TV.

Updated On: 6/11/12 at 04:21 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:24pm

Oh, good grief! Obviously, we ARE talking about it and nobody is preparing tar and feathers. Julies needs a xanax and lovebwy needs a nap.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:34pm

And I could use a little face rape...

[Taryn]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:37pm

Drug addition, IMHO, is a much more serious thing than rape. Rape happens and it's over. Drug addition can stay with you for life and kill you.

I find this statement far more offensive than anything Audra said. It's not about rating one as worse than the other, but rape is not just an experience that happens and is then over. It's a serious act of violence that often affects its victims for the rest of their lives.

For the subject in general: the speech made me flinch a bit. I understand that Audra meant nothing malevolent by the words, but I found them a bit in poor taste. I didn't have the urge to get up and start a thread complaining about it, nor do I like Audra any less. I AM pretty frustrated at certain reactions of this thread that insist that anyone who is bothered by it is just being over-sensitive and slaves to political correctedness. Words have power, and nobody is "wrong" for being offended by a certain mention of a topic of such a highly volatile nature. Yes, everyone has the right to have their own opinions on any subject, but it seems that there are certain demands of human decency that say we should be considerate of those opinions and feelings that differ from ours. And we DO still live in a rape culture where rape jokes and blaming victims is still sadly common; it makes sense that some people are going to be uncomfortable with Audra's comments.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:39pm

In reference to theatrediva's post above: Okay, now see: THAT's how you tell a rape joke.

In fairness to McDonald and at the risk of seeming to contradict myself, she didn't say anything that actors don't joke to one another during the run of a play.

She just didn't take into consideration the difference between playing around backstage and speaking to a national TV audience. (Fortunately, the nation wasn't actually watching.)





Updated On: 6/11/12 at 04:39 PM

[JuliesPoolie]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:40pm

You have a right to be offended by it. I have a right not to be. I have a right not to care about your oversensitivity... I don't think what she said was wrong in any way.

I also have a right to find drug abuse much more serious than rape. I've had family members lose their lives to drug addiction. In my eyes, it's more serious. And yet, I didn't find her comment about drug abuse offensive either. Updated On: 6/11/12 at 04:40 PM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:48pm

[JuliesPoolie]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:49pm

THANK YOU :)

[TracyLord]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:49pm

"Rape happens and it's over."

Totally.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-129105/Rape-girl-driven-suicide-ordeal-court.html

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:50pm

It's very easy to say words don't matter.

But then I have to wonder what one is doing at a forum devoted to the theater.

(This isn't a reference to the post above mine. TracyLord is being ironic.)

Updated On: 6/11/12 at 04:50 PM

[JuliesPoolie]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:51pm

Committing suicide is sadly not the same as ODing on drugs or them causing major body parts to fail because of uncontrollable consistent use.

One's the result of obsession and the other the result of addiction. Sadly, one's controllable and the other isn't.

Updated On: 6/11/12 at 04:51 PM

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 4:57pm

"It wasn't a rape-rape joke." ~ Whoopi

[TracyLord]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 5:23pm

"Committing suicide is sadly not the same as ODing on drugs or them causing major body parts to fail because of uncontrollable consistent use."

Yes, it's very sad that all death isn't comparable.

"One's the result of obsession and the other the result of addiction. Sadly, one's controllable and the other isn't."

Depression isn't a choice. People don't wake up one day and decide to joyfully welcome suicidal thoughts into their mind. Yes, depression can be overcome, but so can addiction.

Back to the topic at hand:

I wasn't personally offended by Audra's comment, but the anti-political correct, "get over yourself" mentality that is being displayed here disturbs me a little. This implies that people should feel ashamed for wanting to avoid the trivialization of rape, and there is something off about that.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 5:25pm

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything TracyLord has said. I didn't see the horror in Audra's comment, but I'm sick of people lamenting the "PC" police every time someone is offended by something. Only anti-PC people (or really people who are anti with they think PC means) even use PC anymore anyway.

[JuliesPoolie]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 5:27pm

And I feel rape shouldn't be held to any higher standard than the other bad things that can happen to a person in life. If other things can be trivial, so can rape. As a woman I am tired of this idea that it's the worst thing that can happen to a person and that no one can talk about it. There are a lot of sh*tty things that can happen to people. Get over it.

And as a woman I do think that there are "50 shades of rape". For ever serious case of molestation there are plenty of girls who merely regret the decisions they've made the night before, "blame the alcohol", or are simply childish in thinking that they can be in a relationship with someone but resent them because they expect to have sex with you. If you never say no to your husband you can't come out 20 years later and say your husband raped you for 20 years because you merely weren't attracted to him.

Updated On: 6/11/12 at 05:27 PM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 5:29pm

Often rape and sexual abuse LEAD to drug abuse, as well!

JuliesPoolie: Erm, I highly disagree with that. I don't believe that you can give overall consent to a person and then that person can never rape you. If your husband wants to have sex, even if you've had sex before, if he coerces or forces you into it that IS rape.

Also, that whole "girls just regret having sex later and say it was rape" is a huge rape apologist myth. Yes, it's easy for girls to claim rape--then they are called sluts, blamed for everything, and their lives are destroyed. Their perpetrator will most likely be acquitted or, if not, put into jail for a few years and then released. They will also have to go through a highly traumatic and psychological-symptom-provoking court process in which they are called liars, sluts, and they have to look their rapist in the eye the entire time.

7% to 9% of rape reports are false.

Updated On: 6/11/12 at 05:29 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 5:34pm

If you never say no to your husband you can't come out 20 years later and say your husband raped you for 20 years because you merely weren't attracted to him.

This sounds like a fascinating story. Link, please.

[Kelly2]

Posted: 6/11/12 at 5:40pm

JuliesPoolie,

I guess I'd just have to wonder why it is your instinct to believe a woman is wrong or lying or exaggerating. There are not "50 Shades of Rape" and I always get sad when I encounter a woman who distrusts women.