Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT- Page 3
Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
#50Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 12:28pmIf race is theme in the show, then race matters in casting. If race is not a theme in the show, then race should not matter in casting. Any questions?
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#51Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 12:40pmRace matters when portraying a real person no matter the fictionalized elements of the play are. Any questions?
#52Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 12:42pm
Ok. So we have one rule. If race is an issue in the show then age/race can be part of the casting. Got it.
What about factual people. Let's leave poor Rose out of this - what about Fanny Brice, FDR - can anyone of any age, sex or race place those roles? Could Audra play Mary Lincoln?
Non factual - but would you believe Bernadette as Kim in Miss Saigon? Lapone as Matilda?
My point is people ALL have their own limit of where they will suspend disbelief and people on this board seem very inclined to put down those (making them feel ageist or racist) who do not share THEIR views in age, race, etc.
#54Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 12:58pmSorry, but I don't want my Rose smelling like Oil of Olay and denture cream. This is a TERRIBLE idea.
#55Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 1:10pm
"Last time I checked this wasn't a random people on the street board."
I doubt the audience for this run will comprise just people on this board. But look, everyone gets to decide for themselves. There are all kinds of things that make an actor persuasive in a role: gender, looks, race, age, height, weight . . . If you think you could simply never accept a black Rose, then that's the answer for you. Others seem to have more of a problem with age. I'm willing to bet race and gender are the only ways in which Merman resembled the real Rose.
The simple fact that a character is based on someone who existed doesn't mean everyone has the same preconceived notion of what that person looked like. We're not talking about Abraham Lincoln or Marilyn Monroe in this instance.
#56Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 1:44pm
"Race matters when portraying a real person no matter the fictionalized elements of the play are. Any questions?"
As an unquestioned statement this is a very dangerous altruism to express towards art-- beyond the simple truth that some of the greatest plays ever written have been inspired by historical figures like Joan of Arc, Jesus and Cleopatra, whom we have no idea what they looked like nor their exact racial heritage, it is to counter the very notion of the universality of the human experience that exists at the center of all art.
I'm all for debating the suitability of race in casting specific roles- but as a generalization this is uninformed to say the very least.
Updated On: 4/21/14 at 01:44 PM
#57Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 2:08pm
^^You are reaching, and you know darn well what my point is! We're talking about Rose Hovick not Jesus! Let's not make this into something it's not we are talking about a concrete person here. For those who would like to be informed, I put my BA in Theatre to use researching!
https://carolynquinn.wordpress.com/tag/mama-rose-hovick/
Updated On: 4/21/14 at 02:08 PM
#58Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 2:15pm
Here's Heather Headley as Fanny Brice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCpCsY7OO7o
"Carson has combined his passion for helping children with his love for one of Cincinnati's favorite past times - cornhole - to create a unique and exciting event perfect for a corporate outing, entertaining clients or family fun."
"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
#59Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 2:21pm
My point is that Rose is a historical character who is really known ONLY because of this musical. So the actress portraying her has to be convincing ONLY in the context of this show. If I have to do research to learn that someone might be inappropriate, then it probably wouldn't affect my experience of her performance.
But again, everyone has to draw their own conclusion.
Updated On: 4/21/14 at 02:21 PM
#60Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 2:23pm
I just adore it when people make grand pronouncements on race as if the New York theater world...or should I say US theater world?...is some kind of Utopian even playing field. It's reductive, simplistic and, in the end, the person making the argument against casting like this never comes out looking particularly great.
I used to draw the line at 1776, until I made the case to myself that, were you to do a concept production, set at a traditionally black college in the 60's where the students were trying to work out how the Continental Congress played out and how those decisions ended up affecting them nearly 200 years later, well...I'd watch the SH*T out of that production.
#61Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 2:40pm
^^No grand proclamation, I'm stating fact in regards to this show (and others that other posters have brought up). If it's a conceptual showing of a production I would agree with you, but that really is another beast entirely. As for the Headley clip, that was in an educational setting and I'm sure she learned a lot from that approach. I could've posted Lillias Whites' performance of "Don't Rain On My Parade" but those Actor's Fund Concerts are concert events, not fully conceptualized shows where often people swap out roles. Similar to that, the Miscast Concerts are entirely based on performers presenting songs from roles they'd never play. I take no issue in concert settings with performers taking liberties- lord knows I have sat through recitals with plenty of white girls singing "Can't Help Loving 'Dat Man" complete with dialect-the thing the previous mentions have in common is that they are all concepts, not fully realized productions. I know people don't typically look great making arguments like this, but really, there are people (closed minded or not)that were eventually going to bring up what others were thinking, hence my original "R" word posting. More over, all of you giving me a hard time understand my argument, so stop reaching to prove otherwise, I'm all for healthy debate, but let's stay on the matter at hand, a two week run at a CT theatre with a diverse Mama Rose, probably for no other purpose then to make a theatre money using a recognizable name. Ms. Uggams' talent aside, I am presenting a fact that is unfortunately race related.
Updated On: 4/21/14 at 02:40 PM
#62Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 2:47pm
But what is this fact you're posting? That some people will have a problem with this? Or that everyone SHOULD have a problem with this? If your threshold of what you're willing to accept in terms of non-traditional casting is Uggams in GYPSY, that's fine. That's your thing and good luck and God bless. It doesn't affect me in the slightest. But if you're suggesting that there is an inherent problem to people of the 'wrong' race playing fictionalized versions of real people in musicals, then people are going to argue that.
Hell...I'd even watch a one-man Lincoln play starring Jeffrey Wright. There's a lot of allowances I would make for a theatrical production. More so than film, certainly. But I understand that my view of such things is simply my own. I couldn't possibly declare it a fact of anything.
#63Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 3:02pmMy argument is that some people may have a problem with it, to each his own, I get that. My over-arching problem is that, yes, I do find fault in asking me to suspend my belief about who someone was. Someone else mentioned in an early post in regards to other white actors playing roles based purely on appearance and not talent, I'm not debating her talent. I expect arguments in regard to my views, that's fine, but please don't call me uninformed. The entertainment industry is largely based on appearance and not talent, the theatrical world in no exception. I have enjoyed reading thoughts contrary to my own, but I wanted to reel us in on the subject at hand. God Bless to you and your views as well!
#64Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 3:09pmDon't forget that in that Headley clip...Emma is white! I've seen the movie...dont tell me Emma is white.
"Carson has combined his passion for helping children with his love for one of Cincinnati's favorite past times - cornhole - to create a unique and exciting event perfect for a corporate outing, entertaining clients or family fun."
"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
#65Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 3:13pmBut phillyguy (forgive the shortening), it's still all your own thing. It's not factual. And though I certainly wouldn't call you ignorant, I would suggest that you are approaching this very thorny issue with a level of nuance that might be beneficial to you. I know that sounds condescending, and I really don't mean it to be. But the historical Jesus most certainly didn't look like Ted Neely. Is it simply the fact that you can find a picture of Rose Hovick on the internet and that renders her casting as a different race unacceptable to you? I would simply suggest to you that forcing yourself to think about these things differently, even if you still come to the same conclusion, could benefit you as a theater artist.
#66Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 3:28pm
< Have you looked at my avatar? I'm not the only person thinking that historically it's an inaccurate portrayal. I am very open-minded, trust me
Race is always a thorny issue on both sides of the fence- society is responsible for that as well. These topics have been bandied about on these boards before, ie. does Lola have to be black in "Kinky Boots" (search it). When Norm Lewis was cast as "the first black Phantom on Broadway" why was that headline news, why not his talent? Is it right no, but unfortunately these are the times we live in! We can agree to just disagree and be better for hearing each other's thoughts, I see no harm in that.
#67Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 3:34pm
No, actually. I feel icky having heard your thoughts.
#68Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 3:43pm
"...historically it's an inaccurate portrayal."
Do you really go to the theater looking for a historically accurate portrayal? I go to the theater looking to be inspired by a writer's words, an actor's interpretation, a composer's brilliance, etc.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#69Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 3:46pm
Whoever questioned Leslie Uggams' acting abilities has not seen her well-deserved Emmy nominated performances in the groundbreaking television miniseries, ROOTS and BACKSTAIRS AT THE WHITE HOUSE.
As for Ms. Uggams playing "Rose" in GYSPY, well, she can play any role she wants - - - she's LESLIE FVCKING UGGAMS.
Get over it.
Updated On: 4/21/14 at 03:46 PM
#70Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 3:59pmYep, now I'm a Racist! Thanks for the label! I could've sworn it was an open honest forum where theatre lovers can speak their mind and talk about like interests and see each other's points and healthily debate without retribution, I was wrong! If this would've been a Broadway production some critic would've went there, right or wrong, trust that! Once and for all, I go to the theatre to be inspired, but I am distracted if I am asking to suspend my disbelief so much so that that is what I'm focusing on other than the piece itself. Why 2 versions of "The Wizard of Oz" one culturally more diverse being "The Wiz" the other white-washed? Two interpretations of the same story, does either really benefit from telling the same story using a different race or is the take away the same? And, once and for all Leslie Uggams is a very talented performer. I wish this production the best, but until I hear their artistic director make a statement otherwise I question the significance of the choice other than to make money.
#71Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 4:14pm
Oh, I'm sure you're not a racist. What you are, dear (he said, dripping with deliberate condescension), is a classic Internet troll.
FishermanBob
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/9/12
#72Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 4:54pm
I'm just hoping that the people so outraged by her playing this role because of her age, race, etc. keep this discussion going and their outrage flowing for a longer period of time than the actual length of the 11 day run of the show. That would be a fun irony.
I would venture to say almost none of you were going to schlep up to Connecticut to see this production regardless of who was cast but her playing the role is clearly the end of modern theater as we know it. OK, if you say so.
#73Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 5:05pmNot outraged, just trying to have a debate- however unhealthily it has mutated! And no, was never planning to make the schlep, but maybe PalJoey would like to troll on up!
FishermanBob
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/9/12
#74Leslie Uggams to play Mama Rose in CT
Posted: 4/21/14 at 5:20pmOK Phillytheatreguy, I wasn't specifically calling you out but since you responded, I feel compelled to ask. You weren't going to see this anyway. It's running for 11 days at a small regional theater in Storrs, Connecticut. Yes, it's historically inaccurate as a Black, albeit very talented actress is playing a character based on someone who was white but having said all that, WHY DO YOU CARE? Why is it worth your time to write response after response about how it is inappropriate cause it is historically inaccurate. I'm just genuinely curious in much the same way I am curious about people coming on to other comment boards day after day, writing long, emotional responses about why they hate the attention given the Kardashians every time an article is published about them when if that topic is of no interest to them, they just simply don't ignore those articles.
