Should WICKED Have Won Best Musical Over AVENUE Q?- Page 3

[FireFingers]

Posted: 12/11/16 at 4:07pm

Avenue Q was the fresher, cleaver show and should have won because of that. Wicked was one of the final moves of the traditional musical theatre stuff. Avenue Q was one of the early examples of a whole new way of doing musical theatre. 

I do think that Wicked should have one best score though. As much as I love the score to Avenue Q, Wicked did far more. 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 12/12/16 at 2:42pm

People have to remember that Avenue Q was definitely a product of its time. It was incredibly relevant and a truly New York show with shout-outs to things that are uniquely New York. It was also an efficiently well-written show and seemed to have a lot less flaws than Wicked did. I do think it hasn't aged that well and the jokes have become stale, but I have a feeling that the next four years (at least) will make a lot of the themes it touches upon will be more obviously relevant in this socio-political climate and may help the show. I did see it about a year ago for the second time and the show wasn't as strong as it was the first time I saw it years ago.

I think with Wicked, it had high aspirations and lofty goals and probably reached them when it comes to sheer popularity and box office. However, the show was seen as heavily flawed and overproduced. It's really an example of spectacle over substance with just enough in it to make it connect with the general audience and have real die hard fans. For a seasoned theatre goer, Wicked was pretty mediocre all-around (music and lyrics are really bad at times, characterization is shallow, and the plot isn't really that interesting), but for the general public, it's exactly the type of show that they want to see when they visit Broadway. I also think it allows performers to put their own stamp into the Glinda/Elphaba characters that the show can be carried by two strong performers. I will say since it treats its "serious" subject matter in the shallowest way possible, it had a lot more longevity than Avenue Q. Anything too deep or too smart may have made Wicked a type of show that wouldn't have lasted as long as it did.

My pick that year was Caroline, or Change which I felt is a true masterpiece in almost every way (dialogue, character, music, lyrics). However, even some critics were lukewarm about it and I don't know how many of them understood a show about a bitter black maid in early 1960s Louisiana. It seems so far removed from what many of these critics are coming from.

Updated On: 12/12/16 at 02:42 PM

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 12/12/16 at 2:44pm

Double Posted.

Updated On: 12/12/16 at 02:44 PM

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 12/12/16 at 2:47pm

Caroline, or Change > Avenue Q > Wicked

[ggersten]

Posted: 12/12/16 at 2:51pm

I viewed giving the award to Avenue Q over a Wicked as an apologia for having given the award to Millie over Urinetown.  

[Jarethan]

Posted: 12/12/16 at 3:55pm

yankeefan7 said: "Wicked is still running strong and Avenue Q closed on Broadway a long time ago. The musical score  of Wicked is superior IMO  and then add the combination of the great performances by Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenowith. 

 

Length of runs has not been a good barometer in the past couple of decades.  Otherwise Mamma Mia would haver won a trove of statues, as would Miss Saigon (which only won for performances).  A Little Night Music would have lost to Pippin, Nine to Dreamgirls (which would not have been  catastrophic -- both were great shows).

I personally think that Wicked has some serious flaws (the direction was among the worst for a hit show in my 50 years of theatre-going and did the sets have to be that ugly?), but I loved large parts of it, particularly the dramatic songs.  I may be too old or a buddy-duddy, but i was not impressed by Avenue Q at all and I truly hated parts of it.  Re Caroline or Change, I only saw it in Minneapolis at the Guthrie, so i can't account for  the differences in the production quality...Guthrie's was very high, i would acknowledge... but t didn't engage me the way I expected it to.  I admired it more than loved it.  So, on balance, I'd go for Wicked.

 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 12/23/16 at 6:24pm

What about Best Original Score? My rankings for Best Original Score would have been: 1) Caroline, or Change; 2) Taboo; 3) Avenue Q; and 4) Wicked. I would have been ok with any of the top 3 winning, though I think Caroline, or Change and Taboo are quite a bit ahead of Avenue Q which is quite a bit ahead of Wicked. The Taboo OBC is one of the Broadway albums I listen to most.

Updated On: 12/23/16 at 06:24 PM

[icecreambenjamin]

Posted: 12/23/16 at 7:32pm

Caroline, or Change is pure art.  It really is one of the best and most important musicals of the 21st century.  I find it to be far superior to the fun and flashy spectacle that Wicked is and to be superior to Avenue Q, which is enjoyable, but isn't necessarily a brilliant piece of theatre.  Caroline really was before it's time and I hope to see a revival soon.

[A Director]

Posted: 12/23/16 at 8:07pm

To the person who started this thread.  It's a little know fact that on Jan. 20, 2017, AVENUE Q's Tony Award for Best Musical will be taken away and given to WICKED!  It's gonna be YUGE!

[Broadway Bounce]

Posted: 12/23/16 at 8:55pm

yankeefan7 said: "Wicked is still running strong and Avenue Q closed on Broadway a long time ago. The musical score  of Wicked is superior IMO  and then add the combination of the great performances by Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenowith. 

"

And McDonalds is still open and the four star restaurnat down the street closed.

So what's your point?

[BwayDreamer00]

Posted: 12/25/16 at 4:43pm

I like Wicked but between the two Avenue Q hands down deserved it. Its so much more scaled down compared to Wicked. It doesn't rely on huge sets and flashy coreo to get by, its funny and fresh sure Wicked is MUCH more known (and in some ways more iconic) then Avenue Q but to me its the underdog that deserves thew win, Caroline or Change is beautiful though its so sad that it opened in such a competitive year 

[funhamilton_rent]

Posted: 12/25/16 at 4:50pm

While I love Avenue Q, Wicked deserved the win. Score-wise, I cannot fathom anyone actually believing that Avenue Q's is better than Wicked's. One of the worst Tony snubs ever, on par with Phantom over ITW & Kelli over Kristin. "It Sucks To Be Me" will never stand the test of time, nor was it better to begin with, over "What Is This Feeling".

[gypsy101]

Posted: 12/25/16 at 5:35pm

funhamilton_rent said: "While I love Avenue Q, Wicked deserved the win. Score-wise, I cannot fathom anyone actually believing that Avenue Q's is better than Wicked's."

...have you heard the lyrics to Wicked? i'd estimate 90% of them or so are dreadful with the other 10% being merely passable.

(also i truly believe that Avenue Q is the better score)

Updated On: 12/25/16 at 05:35 PM

[South Florida]

Posted: 12/25/16 at 8:51pm

This thread makes me wanna hear or see Caroline because I saw both the others early on.  Avenue Q put a smile on your face that never left the whole show.  Wicked is beautiful.  Of the two, like most folks, Wicked is the one I prefer more than once.  I think the Tony's blew it that year of the two, and I think Idina should have lost to Cheno.  The Tony's have an excellent history of upsets, this year should be interesting.

 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 12/26/16 at 11:51am

I think the funniest post is someone saying how Wicked's score was superior to Avenue Q's and then citing "What is This Feeling" as an example. Might as well cite the score's other gems like "Dancing Through Life" and "A Sentimental Man".

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 12/26/16 at 12:29pm

Not that it is relevant to quality, but just to correct, the original production of Avenue Q is still running eight shows a week in midtown theater not much smaller than its Broadway house. 

[Hank]

Posted: 12/26/16 at 9:01pm

I loved them both since back in the day.  Wicked is timeless, who dosn't love the Wizard of Oz storyline?  But Ave Q knocked me out.  A bit dated now, but the humor was right on at the time, and I'm sure many a recent college grad can relate.