Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban- Page 2
Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
#25Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 9:11am
Petralicious said: "I know many people who have family members killed or taken by Nzi Germany. I literally got slapped across my face when I called someone a Hitler as a child.
When you look at these figures, Can you understand how silly it is to call ANYONE Hitler? Whether it be Trump, or Obama or Bush as they were called as well?
"How many innocent people has he killed? (Hitler:6,000,000–11,000,000)
How many concentration camps has he opened (Hitler 900)
How many countries has he invaded? (Hitler: 11)
How many times has he bombed a country? (London bombed 71 different times alone)
The lady doth protest too much methinks....
You Can Disagree Without Being Disagreeable
BroadwayConcierge
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/24/15
#26Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 9:28am
adamgreer's response is, yet again, one that epitomizes the modern American liberal: "GASP! RACIST! IMMIGRANT HATER!!!"
Xenophobia is fear against immigrants; not illegal immigrants. Immigrants are wonderful! It may shock you, adamgreer, that I come from a family of immigrants myself! Illegals, however, are no bueno. A wall in this regard is good.
Also, comparing Trump to Hitler remains the most asinine thing ever, and doing so completely ruins your legitimacy.
#27Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 10:08am
To Petra and Concierge:
Petra - Of course Trump hasn't done the things Hitler did - YET. Give him a little longer than four days in office. Didn't take him long to start though, did it?
Concierge - It might shock YOU that almost all of us come from a family of immigrants if you go back far enough. Why? Because that's what this country is made of. IMMIGRANTS.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#28Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 10:53am
BroadwayConcierge said: "adamgreer's response is, yet again, one that epitomizes the modern American liberal: "GASP! RACIST! IMMIGRANT HATER!!!"
Xenophobia is fear against immigrants; not illegal immigrants. Immigrants are wonderful! It may shock you, adamgreer, that I come from a family of immigrants myself! Illegals, however, are no bueno. A wall in this regard is good.
Also, comparing Trump to Hitler remains the most asinine thing ever, and doing so completely ruins your legitimacy.
"
Do you know how many people have actually come here illegally through sneaking across the Mexican border? Most of the illegal immigration is through people extending their stay here after flyers by into the United States.https://youtu.be/0wk6rswxQro
In our millions, in our billions, we are most powerful when we stand together. TW4C unwaveringly joins the worldwide masses, for we know our liberation is inseparably bound.
Signed,
Theater Workers for a Ceasefire
https://theaterworkersforaceasefire.com/statement
mar6411
Broadway Star Joined: 9/19/09
#29Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:06am
BroadwayConcierge said: "adamgreer's response is, yet again, one that epitomizes the modern American liberal: "GASP! RACIST! IMMIGRANT HATER!!!"
Xenophobia is fear against immigrants; not illegal immigrants. Immigrants are wonderful! It may shock you, adamgreer, that I come from a family of immigrants myself! Illegals, however, are no bueno. A wall in this regard is good.
Also, comparing Trump to Hitler remains the most asinine thing ever, and doing so completely ruins your legitimacy.
First, the Trump/Hitler discussion is Petra's false equivalency argument.
Now let's talk the border wall and the banning of immigrants - two separate actions.
I think you need to do a little research on the wall. It seems to get a lot of support mostly from those that don't live near the Mexican border or know anything about it. Those that do - who include many conservative Trump supporters - acknowledge that it doesn't make sense. It is not likely to have any impact on illegal immigration of the "bad guys." What about all the tunnels, etc that are used? They'll continue to multiply. But please do a little research on the support for the wall by those that have knowledge on the area.
In addition, it will cost lots. Given that there are limited resources and there are lots of competing needs for capital for Trump's proposed projects, where's the money going to come from? He wants to do a big infrastructure plan which has a lot of support, he wants to cut taxes, he wants to expand defense, insurance for all, no reductions to SS or Medicare. . . . .All of these add to the deficit. Hugely. The Republicans want revenue neutral. I'd rather see it go for infrastructure than the wall. Research and think.
As far as immigration, it is about shutting the borders. Keeping others out. Especially ones that might not have the same skin color or the same religious beliefs. It's always the way it is - back from when my grandparents came from Eastern Europe. And before that. The existing people never want the new people. They are afraid. You can't know "good" and "bad." We've home grown most of the bad by our attitudes. We're all about the categories. And we are creating bad will at home and around the world. Our national security is compromised because of our actions - not because we're letting immigrants in. We have more Tim McVeighs than we do illegal immigrants that do the same.
And I'm reminded of a remark KDogg made on another thread. We do so much in the name of terrorism - lots of money and rhetoric - but in truth, our "risks" - in many senses - is not from these nameless, faceless, illegal immigrant terrorists that we so rail against. It's mostly from people we know.
I wrote this as much for me - I think it is incumbent upon people to give reasoned responses. I do not put Petra in that category because she is the master of linking something that only has a little bit of what she says and always trots out the false equivalencies.
Carry on.
#30Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:15am
mar6411 First, the Trump/Hitler discussion is Petra's false equivalency argument.
"FAIL. I did not compare Hitler/Trump. Your fellow liberals did.
I did exact opposite, Pointing out their False Equivalency and the danger of making such ridiculous comparisons
See Above. Read Above.
Facts Matter
Carry On.
When They Go Low, I Go High
Updated On: 1/25/17 at 11:15 AM
mar6411
Broadway Star Joined: 9/19/09
#31Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:21am
Petra dear,
I am aware you do not make the first move. But you escalated to faux outrage. We get it.
I saw above. I read above.
Thanks again. All the best.
Carry on.
#32Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:22am
Theater_Nerd said: "So no, Trump hasn't killed anyone"
Yes he has. Are we just ignoring drone strikes and other aggression in the Middle East now that Obama normalized it?
#33Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:25am
BroadwayConcierge said: "Illegals, however, are no bueno. A wall in this regard is good."
False. Most of them are quite bueno. Crossing some imaginary line created long ago by warmongering assholes does not make someone a bad person.
Question: if someone exceeded the speed limit on the way to work every day, would you call that person an "illegal driver"? Or just label that person an "illegal" as shorthand? If the answer is no, yet you do something like that for undocumented immigrants, then, yes, that's xenophobia.
#34Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:32am
I caved in to something that I swore I was not ever going to do. So I'm going to wisely step away from discussing politics here.
All I see is a vicious circle that never ends. There is no meeting of the minds here. There is no calm discussion here. There is only toxicity, a lack of comprehension, a dedication to misunderstanding and one-up-manship that is frankly nauseating.
It's everyone standing in the middle of the school yard and pulling their d*cks out to prove whose is bigger.
Drive yourselves crazy in your vain attempts to outdo yourselves.
I have absolutely zero interest in that kind of interaction.
This world is hard enough as it is.
I'd rather be out there doing something and making positive change and not sitting behind my MacBook trying to out insult others.
It's petty and it's useless.
Stop arguing amongst each other on here and go out there and do something if you don't like what's going on and stop caring about what others on this Off Topic message board think about it.
You Can Disagree Without Being Disagreeable
#35Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 11:39am
Theater_Nerd said: "I'd rather be out there doing something and making positive change and not sitting behind my MacBook trying to out insult others.
It's petty and it's useless.
Stop arguing amongst each other on here and go out there and do something if you don't like what's going on and stop caring about what others on this Off Topic message board think about it."
Well, I think a lot of us probably are out there doing something. But that's not mutually exclusive with tilting at windmills here. :)
I apologize if my direct response to you (re: drones) is what put you over the edge. Obviously I have my pet issues.
#36Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 12:01pm
kdogg36 said: "Theater_Nerd said: "I'd rather be out there doing something and making positive change and not sitting behind my MacBook trying to out insult others.
It's petty and it's useless.
Stop arguing amongst each other on here and go out there and do something if you don't like what's going on and stop caring about what others on this Off Topic message board think about it."
Well, I think a lot of us probably are out there doing something. But that's not mutually exclusive with tilting at windmills here. :)
I apologize if my direct response to you (re: drones) is what put you over the edge. Obviously I have my pet issues.
No apology needed from you kdogg. You provided a fact that I had overlooked and I take absolutely no issue with that at all.
What sent me "over the edge" (your term - not mine) is in re-reading the interaction between BroadwayConcierge and Petralicious and the other board members.
There comes a time when one has to recognize that no matter what you say or how much proof you provide to back up your views the other party is going to choose to adamantly look the other way - - - even if in some way the know you are right. That's when their ego gets in the way and clouds their perspective because all the are interested in is in being right. No matter what the cost.
When you are dealing with those kind of people you have to just let it go and surrender not because they are right - but because you are secure enough in your convictions to know that at the end of the day it doesn't matter whether they agree with you or not.
You Can Disagree Without Being Disagreeable
mar6411
Broadway Star Joined: 9/19/09
#37Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 12:01pm
I tried to address a response to the issues at hand. Sorry if you were offended Theatre Nerd.
Might want to step off the soapbox a little. Sometimes we feel the need to engage - even if we know it is useless - and sometimes not. I think there is room for both.
Carry on.
#38Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 12:12pm
mar6411 said: "I tried to address a response to the issues at hand. Sorry if you were offended Theatre Nerd.
Might want to step off the soapbox a little. Sometimes we feel the need to engage - even if we know it is useless - and sometimes not. I think there is room for both.
Carry on.
You didn't' offend me either mar6411 but I take issue with you by suggesting that I am on a soap box. I am just expressing my perspective.
You can feel the need to engage even if you know that it is "useless". I personally don't feel the need to participate in anything that would ever be considered useless. I would rather expend my energy on things that are useful.
But to each his own.
Carry on.
You Can Disagree Without Being Disagreeable
lotiloti
Broadway Star Joined: 1/23/06
#39Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 12:21pm
My comparing Germany in the 1930's, with the current administration. Was not to suggest he is Hitler.
But if you ( Petralicious) bothered to read a history book, You will see the same hatred's, just different targets. The German economy was down the toilet, who did they blame. The Jews, the Queers and the Gypsys.. Now its Muslims & Mexicans. If the rise of ultra right wing fascism across the west ,doesn't scare the **** out of you .It should, I am old enough to remember what the fascists did across Europe, The thought it's return makes me shudder. If you must blame something for loss of jobs, it's not the immigrants. It's the computer age and robotics and the multi national corporations, who go around the world to find the cheapest labor. Blaming immigration for your ills, is short sighted and wrong. Don't forget, it was our parents and grandparents who died in there millions to destroy fascism for good. It must not be allowed to rise again, in whatever form it takes.
#40Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 2:01pm
WRONG.
Trump is not blaming Muslims or Mexicans or Immigrants for Job Losses. He is blaming companies for shipping jobs out, blaming US Trade Pacts such as TPP and NAFTA, and blaming countries.
He is not stopping Immigration. Thats just FAKENEWS. He is stopping ILLEGAL Immigration which as a legal immigrant is a big big difference.
When They Go Low, I Go High
Updated On: 1/25/17 at 02:01 PM
#41Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 2:06pm
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”
–Real estate mogul Donald Trump, presidential announcement speech, June 16, 2015
No person is illegal.
lotiloti
Broadway Star Joined: 1/23/06
#42Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 2:06pm
The only Fake thing on here dear ,is you.
#43Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 2:08pm
All Americans, not only in the states most heavily affected but in every place in this country, are rightly disturbed by the large numbers of illegal aliens entering our country.We are a nation of immigrants. But we are also a nation of laws. It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it.
When They Go Low, I Go High
#44Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 2:32pm
Again, do you use the term "illegal driver" to refer to someone who regularly flouts traffic laws? Or do you reserve this kind of term only for foreigners?
#45Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 2:38pm
I love you KDOGG, but i am sorry it is not the same, to quote Mar that is a false equivalency
You need the proper paperwork and a license gives you permission to drive, so yes, a person driving illegally, without a license as an illegal driver. if a person has a license and regularly flouts the law, he will lose his license and his permission to drive. he would in fact be illegal if he than drives.
Someone who is in this country illegally does not have the permission or the papers to be here
When They Go Low, I Go High
Updated On: 1/25/17 at 02:38 PM
#46Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 2:42pm
Petralicious said: "You need the proper paperwork and a license gives you permission to drive, so yes, a person driving illegally, without a license as an illegal driver."
OK, I can accept that. But I wonder how many people who regularly use the term "illegal immigrant" would use "illegal driver" in that situation (I've never heard the latter term, to be honest). I wonder how many would also just call that driver an "illegal" (I'm sure the answer is zero).
ETA: My Google search for "illegal driver" was filled with entries about golf clubs.
BroadwayConcierge
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/24/15
#47Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 2:52pm
kdogg, are you actually challenging the notion that aliens shouldn't cross our national borders illegally? Even with or without a wall?
#48Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 3:01pm
BroadwayConcierge said: "kdogg, are you actually challenging the notion that aliens shouldn't cross our national borders illegally? Even with or without a wall?"
Yes, actually I am. To a libertarian, there is no such thing as a victimless crime. If there's no victim, there's no crime. If an individual comes to the US for a better job and leads a peaceful life, that person is welcome to be my neighbor, even if he or she crossed some river or imaginary line in the desert.
Many will respond that they're stealing jobs, not paying taxes, and the like. But out-competing someone for a job isn't stealing it, and if taxes are a concern, then perhaps we should find a way for these workers to come out of the shadows.
Of course, immigrants who commit real crimes are a problem, but my understanding is that this is not nearly as big a problem as native-born citizens who commit crimes.
#49Tomorrow's executive orders include the Muslim ban
Posted: 1/25/17 at 3:05pm
Do you know of any country on the earth that has no borders? Even Germany is now radically changing their immigration rules.
When They Go Low, I Go High
