What to do about ITH professional production with non POC in lead roles?- Page 3

[MR11]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 1:40pm

_(•_&bull_/ said: "Again, white people can be latino. Just because they have softer skin doesnt make them any less of a latino then someone with darker skin.

"

Again, one of the actors used the hashtag #italiangirl in their Instagram announcing their role. Pretty sure that means she isn't latinx.

[\_(•_•)_/]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 1:44pm

I guess Latinos can only be from Mexico!!! Wowza!

[Fosse76]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 1:44pm

MR11 said: "fashionguru_23 said: "Is it bad that I looked at the Twitter photo earlier up in the thread, and saw no one who I had an issue with. Its not like Andrew Keenan Bolger is playing Benny"

This mindset is dangerous and part of the problem. Just because someone "looks" a certain way doesn't hold up anymore in the arts and in shows that are specifically about a culture of people. In addition, the authors expressed that they want the roles cast appropriately."

I'm pretty sure the latest revival of the King and I didn't have anyone in the cast from Thailand, and certainly none of the leads of Miss Saigon hailed from Vietnam. Kelli O'Hara played an Italian woman in Bridges of Madison County, and I haven't heard any complaints over casting choices in Evita (and the one time they cast the show authentically, the lead was criticized for being underwhelming in the role). Even Rent, almost exclusively, cast Mimi, a Hispanic character, with black actresses. The 2004 Fiddler revival had no one of Jewish dissent in the principal cast (parodied in Forbidden Broadway but only creating a minor controversy). And there are, *shockingly*, Latinos who look Caucasian.

The reality of casting is that you find someone who can LOOK and ACT the part. Ideally the casting should be as authentic as possible. But as long as the material can support the casting without turning into caricature, it shouldn't be a major issue if casting is appearance-based. Obviously we wouldn't want another Mickey Rooney-level casting offense, but MR11's argument would prevent the casting of anyone who does not fit the ethnic background of their specific character, which would require, for this show, an actress who immigrated from Cuba, and an actress of Chilean, Cuban, Dominican, and Puerto Rican descent. Good luck casting those roles.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 1:45pm

MR11 said: Again, one of the actors used the hashtag #italiangirl in their Instagramannouncing their role. Pretty sure that means she isn't latinx."

 

Why is that?  Can an italian man and a latina woman (or vice versa) not reproduce?

[JP2]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 1:56pm

As someone who is Latino (and black!) I just get tired of having to be angry at something all the time. Who cares? It's freaking Pittsburgh. 

Updated On: 1/8/19 at 01:56 PM

[MR11]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 2:00pm

Fosse76 said: "MR11 said: "fashionguru_23 said: "Is it bad that I looked at the Twitter photo earlier up in the thread, and saw no one who I had an issue with. Its not like Andrew Keenan Bolger is playing Benny"

This mindset is dangerous and part of the problem. Just because someone "looks" a certain way doesn't hold up anymore in the arts and in shows that are specifically about a culture of people. In addition, the authors expressed that they want the roles cast appropriately."

I'm pretty sure the latest revival of the King and I didn't have anyonein the cast from Thailand, and certainly none of the leads of Miss Saigon hailed from Vietnam. Kelli O'Hara played an Italian woman in Bridges of Madison County, and I haven't heard any complaints over casting choices in Evita (and the one time they cast the show authentically, the lead was criticized for being underwhelming in the role). Even Rent, almost exclusively, cast Mimi, a Hispanic character, with black actresses. The 2004 Fiddler revival had no one of Jewish dissent in the principal cast (parodied in Forbidden Broadway but only creating a minor controversy). And there are, *shockingly*, Latinos who look Caucasian.

The reality of casting is that you find someone who can LOOKand ACT the part. Ideally the casting should be as authentic as possible. But as long as the material can support the casting without turning intocaricature, it shouldn't be a major issue if casting is appearance-based. Obviously we wouldn't want another Mickey Rooney-level castingoffense, but MR11'sargument would prevent the casting of anyone who does not fit the ethnic background of their specific character, which would require, for this show, an actress who immigrated from Cuba, and an actress of Chilean, Cuban, Dominican, and Puerto Rican descent. Good luck casting those roles."

 

That wasn't the argument I was trying to make, if you look back again at the original post I specified that the production was casting white people not POC. POC pretty much encompasses all other ethnicities just not caucasian people.   It is dangerous when someone says for instance "you are italian..so you look Latino enough." I take no issue with the show being cast with POC.  We need to do better. 

 

[\_(•_•)_/]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 2:04pm

Everytime this topic comes up, its the white person who is more offended then the actual latinos.

The truth is you dont know if they are white. They could be white passing.

If they are white passing, I feel absolutely terrible for them. They want to perform their culture and here you are a (white person) trying to take that away from them.

This isnt your battle.

[MR11]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 2:23pm

_(•_&bull_/ said: "Everytime this topic comes up, its the white person who is more offended then the actual latinos.

The truth is you dont know if they are white. They could be white passing.

If they are white passing, I feel absolutely terrible for them. They want to perform their culture and here you are a (white person) trying to take that away from them.

This isnt your battle."

 

I literally know both actors and know that they are not Latinx at all. So I'm not assuming they are "white passing" which in itself isn't a great term at all, actually it's pretty horrible and I'm shocked you would even use it. 

So in this instance, you are incorrect. The two actors in question are not "white passing." 

 

[haterobics]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 2:45pm

MR11 said: "I know several Latinx people in Pittsburgh that DO care, so many I should channel my energy and speak to them since they actually want our community to grow."

Seems a more productive path than arguing with strangers from around the globe. Still not entirely sure what you want them to do, they cast people from outside the area to ensure the cast was more diverse than where it is being staged, but didn't reach 100% diversity... that's a dream state for a lot of areas.

[bk]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 2:57pm

MR11 said: "_(•_&bull_/ said: "You should also be VERY careful, some of us latinos pass as white.

Calm down, take a breather, and find a new audition. Youre acting like its the end of the world. Its not.

Dont support it, why are you going to ruin a fun time for actors, dressers, stage managers, musicians, lights, props, ushers, box office staff all because two actors are white.

Grow up."



I didn't audition because I'm WHITE, and it wouldn't be appropriate for me to tell this story.

I'm sad to see that you don't care about representation in the arts. Why does the length of the run matter? It could be a one night only concert reading and it would still be wrong.

I guess you also don't care about the authors and how they want their work to be done?

Remind me to never work with you.

"

Earlier you said you hadn't auditioned because you weren't an actor.  Now you're saying you didn't audition because you're white.  While you weren't explicit about it, I believe your initial posts were designed to make people think you were not white.  You want to know why people think this is fishy?  Let me put on my thinking cap.

[MR11]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 3:04pm

bk said: "MR11 said: "_(•_&bull_/ said: "You should also be VERY careful, some of us latinos pass as white.

Calm down, take a breather, and find a new audition. Youre acting like its the end of the world. Its not.

Dont support it, why are you going to ruin a fun time for actors, dressers, stage managers, musicians, lights, props, ushers, box office staff all because two actors are white.

Grow up."



I didn't audition because I'm WHITE, and it wouldn't be appropriate for me to tell this story.

I'm sad to see that you don't care about representation in the arts. Why does the length of the run matter? It could be a one night only concert reading and it would still be wrong.

I guess you also don't care about the authors and how they want their work to be done?

Remind me to never work with you.

"

Earlier you said you hadn't auditioned because you weren't an actor. Now you're saying you didn't audition because you're white. While you weren't explicit about it, I believe your initial posts were designed to make people think you were not white. You want to know why people think this is fishy? Let me put on my thinking cap."

I apologize for not disclosing my age, name, gender, ethnicity, address, marital status. etc in my first post. I didn't realize those were requirements to post here. 

[Niles Silvers]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 3:05pm

No one is stopping you from protesting this perceived injustice.  I suggest you rally your troops if you feel that strongly about it.  It's difficult, though, to know where to draw the line between demanding justice and falling into the trap of fascism.  

[\_(•_•)_/]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 3:07pm

This whole thread is just wow.


You are WHITE.

Again, this is NOT your battle.

[MR11]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 3:09pm

_(•_&bull_/ said: "This whole thread is just wow.


You are WHITE.

Again, this is NOT your battle.

 

Thank YOU for letting me know. I really appreciate you trolling me all afternoon when you could have been constructive. Help me understand that as a white person I'm not allowed to advocate for others in the theatre community? Why are you so against that? Why do you choose to be negative?

"

 

[upinlights]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 3:16pm

Fellow Pittsburgher here. Moving past what's been said above me, these feelings could be channeled into supporting the diversity that does exist in the PGH arts scene! There's the August Wilson Cultural Center, great events celebrating diversity, inclusion, and accessibility at the Warhol, and even productions showcasing student diversity at CMU/Pitt/etc. We COULD focus on this one production of ITH, or do our part in supporting diverse theater around us :)

[\_(•_•)_/]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 3:19pm

You want to shut down a community performance because theres two cast members who are white. Even though white latinos exist, you still felt the need to think that only darker skinned lations can be in in the heights.

You failed to get outraged when african- americans took on the lead roles on broadway, even though they have no mexican descent. By accepting one race but having a public boycott over another pushes us a LARGE step backwards.

The fact is in the heights can have white people, and it doesnt make it racist. By saying white people (who can portray Lation decent) isnt allowed makes you wonder what else the next outrage is.

You cant eliminate ones culture.

With you being white, you are essentialy telling another race what they can and cant be. By telling another race (latinos) that white people cant be in a latino production, thus eliminating (white latinos) paints you as the racist type.

[MR11]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 3:23pm

_(•_&bull_/ said: "You want to shut down a community performance because theres two cast members who are white. Even though white latinos exist, you still felt the need to think that only darker skinned lations can be in in the heights.

You failed to get outraged when african- americans took on the lead roles on broadway, even though they have no mexican descent. By accepting one race but having a public boycott over another pushes us a LARGE step backwards.

The fact is in the heights can have white people, and it doesnt make it racist. By saying white people (who can portray Lation decent) isnt allowed makes you wonder what else the next outrage is.

You cant eliminate ones culture.

With you being white, you are essentialy telling another race what they can and cant be. By telling another race (latinos) that white people cant be in a latino production, thus eliminating (white latinos) paints you as the racist type.

"

Everything you said above...is totally putting words in my mouth. I never ever said I wanted to "shut down" the performance. I acknowledged the fact that POC can and HAVE and SHOULD be in ITH.... and I acknowledged that the two actors in question are indeed NOT "White Latino." If you could refrain from putting words in my mouth or twisting my words that woud be awesome. Again, I came here for POSTIVE solutions and you spun it to the negative.

[\_(•_•)_/]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 3:28pm

MR11 said: "There is a production of In The Heights happening in Pittsburgh that just started rehearsals. They've cast nonPOC as lead roles. What do you all think, in your opinion is the best course of action?

Do we as a theatre community....boycott the production? Alert the media? Speak to the nonPOC actors? Members of the latinxcommunity have already reached out to the company to express their concerns but no response.



https://www.broadwayworld.com/pittsburgh/article/Lin-Manuel-Mirandas-IN-THE-HEIGHTS-Takes-The-Stage-In-Pittsburghs-West-End-20190104"

 

You very well know what boycotting will lead too. My point stands. 

[MR11]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 3:45pm

_(•_&bull_/ said: "MR11 said: "There is a production of In The Heights happening in Pittsburgh that just started rehearsals. They've cast nonPOC as lead roles. What do you all think, in your opinion is the best course of action?

Do we as a theatre community....boycott the production? Alert the media? Speak to the nonPOC actors? Members of the latinxcommunity have already reached out to the company to express their concerns but no response.

 

Again, twisting my words. I was asking a question...as you can see from the "?" I wasn't suggesting it.

TROLL BABY TROLL!!



https://www.broadwayworld.com/pittsburgh/article/Lin-Manuel-Mirandas-IN-THE-HEIGHTS-Takes-The-Stage-In-Pittsburghs-West-End-20190104"



You very well know what boycotting will lead too. My point stands."

 

[GreeneStreet]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 3:54pm

This is why no one will ever take you seriously on this site ever again.

The minute you are in the wrong, you call people trolls.

[sbflyfan]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 4:31pm

This thread is a trip. Lmao

Pittsburgh Musical Theater must be living in bliss, since they just formally announced their full cast.

https://www.facebook.com/108217746015/posts/10155925278996016/

[Kalimba]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 4:35pm

Sour Grapes! The OP comes off as someone who didn't get cast.

[pattywowo]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 4:54pm

I have been a frequent visitor to the BWW message boards for quite some time now (even before I created an account), but never had the want to make a post, but I guess there is a first time for everything.

To the OP, when I first read your post I also read it as a form of jealousy based on casting. I also did make an assumption that you were not a white person just based on the way your posts were written. With saying that I can understand why some have taken offense to what you have stated to this point. I urge you to go back and re-read what you have posted, and maybe you will understand as well.You really have been hitting around the bush on this entire thread. But from gathering all the pieces together (from your many posts) it seems like you want to make a difference. Many other posters have given you recommendations on ways you can proceed to try and make a difference. From one "new" member to another I don't believe you have gone about this in a wise way. You have been incredibly defensive from the get-go. Keep in mind that not everyone you interact with is going to hold your same opinion, and attacking them by calling them trolls is going to subtract your potential supporters in your efforts as well.

Best of luck to you, but I believe your heart (might) be in the right place, just not sure you went about a solution in the right way especially being a brand new member.....

Updated On: 1/8/19 at 04:54 PM

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 5:51pm

MR11 said: "I started this thread in good faith asking for assistance in how we as a community should handle a situation like this? Instead the internet reared it's ugly head."

And you got your answer as to how we as a community should handle a situation like this. It's not a big deal. Let it go. But that wasn't the answer you wanted cause you're on some sort of campaign so now you're 8 different kinds of outraged and railing against everyone. You misled us about the theater trying to hide its casting and misled us about it being "an equity production". If POC members of this forum are telling you most of them given all the circumstances of this particular production; location, length, diverse cast overall etc. don't see it as a huge deal, is it really appropriate for you as a self claimed Caucasian to say "No, I am in a better position to decide what Latinx theater people should be offended by that they are"? Cause that's what you are saying. 

 

Updated On: 1/8/19 at 05:51 PM

[bk]

Posted: 1/8/19 at 8:51pm

Let me see if I can keep all this straight: Account created today.  Original poster making it seem like he/she is a person of color, then admitting he/she is white.  OP saying he/she isn't an actor, then saying they didn't audition because they were white.  Which is it?  OP then admitting he/she knows the two lead actors.  Really?  And you come here and try to what?  Have your friends recast?  People have posted this is a one week run with a community theater.  You have posted it's an Equity production for two weeks.  Which is it?  You have been disingenuous since post one.  What is your real game here because no one is buying anything you're saying.  Were you not cast?  Do you have an ax to grind with this theater?  Try being honest because in the end some fine soul in this thread will probably contact the two lead actors that you say you know and find out the real deal.