Reopen post-Rudin Worker Improvements - Page 3

[Fosse76]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 2:09pm

The types of changes required to prevent bullying and harassment cannot be jumpstarted by consumers ("you don't like it, don't buy a ticket."). It's naive or ignorant to think otherwise. Much like global warming prevention, this is an institional issue that must be addressed by those "in power." You can't expect every consumer to even know about issues related to any one show, and even if they did, and sales dried up, it would be merely conjecture at best to attribute that to any of the aforementioned behavior.

[Jaxson2]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 2:28pm

RippedMan said: "Jax, I don't think we should applaud Ms. Erivo for essentially closing down an entire big mega musical for claiming racist action that indeed was not racist but just business."

I agree with you Ripped. It appeared she complained about diversity and discrimination against Oak being fired and replaced with "a white man" which was not the intent.  

 

[Jaxson2]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 2:53pm

HogansHero said: "Yes it would be lovely if everyone in every obscure province were unionized but that's well beyond the scope of this discussion. The fact is you couldn't field a baseball team withnon-unionized employees workingin a Broadway theatre."

Disagree. There are a substantial number of concession and audio workers.

 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 2:57pm

Jaxson2 said: "HogansHero said: "Yes it would be lovely if everyone in every obscure province were unionized but that's well beyond the scope of this discussion. The fact is you couldn't field a baseball team withnon-unionized employees workingin a Broadway theatre."

Disagree. There are a substantial number of concession and audio workers.

you’re absolutely right. Ugh hogansheros and his constant lies and misinformation 

 

[Jaxson2]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 3:00pm

Islander_fan said: 

As for the bar staff, merch and those who deal with the assisted listening devices. They can’t be in their own union since they aren’t hired and employed by a private company who has a contract with Shubert, Nederlander etc. That company is called Show Trans. 

As for the audio folks, it is not Show Trans.  Any group of workers can unionize by law.  How do you know if the companies don't have a contract?  


"

 

[Jaxson2]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 3:10pm

HogansHero said: "Playbill_Trash said: "Nothing about the casting of Mandy Patinkin was about race."
LOL It was a quintessential example of systemic racism. An incompetent producer who thinks he can sell more tickets with a white employee. Any {nonwhite, female, gay} person looking for a slaes job has had this 'splained to them many times."

May I ask how often you saw the Comet?  

A black man, Oak, replaced a white man, Groban. Was that racist?  Clearly, Patinkin could've outsold Groban.  Yes, the producer stupidly used the Ham show to elevate Oak. They only needed Patinkin's name & not the shows Patinkin played.  The cast was very diverse. 

There were published accounts of internal, creative difficulties b/w Oak & the director.

 

Updated On: 5/11/21 at 03:10 PM

[Jaxson2]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 3:43pm

With the Rudin  issue somewhat behind us and loud demands for a transparent and abuse-free work environment, will the vocal and demonstrative outrage become muted upon reopening?  What about non-union workers without protection, such as theater concession and audio-assist-headset workers?  Will unions come to their aid to assist them in joining a union and protect them from employer retribution?  Or will all be forgotten during and upon the re-opening on both the union and non-union front?

A summary of my original post.  Ticket sales are strong for the 1st two nights of a show's return, but fall off somewhat after that from what I can see.  Need the tourists.  So once the $ are in, it's very possible nothing will change.  And what if sales don't pick up? Cutbacks?  JuJamcyn dumped Ticketmaster for Seat Geek.  They're pushing digital. Does that mean fewer box office folks?

Local 1 doesn't have a means to join the union on their website that I could see. IDK if that's the norm. Do they want to limit numbers joining to protect current members, specifically, fewer folks competing for jobs?

My main point is that all the protestations via marches and speeches go nowhere without action from various industry sectors.

A toxic and exploitative work environment covers alot of ground beyond throwing potatoes & screaming. It includes poor pay, unpaid hours, unsafe environment, harassment, discrimination, hostility, etc. Mr. Rude took a head dive.  Will that avalanche of reform demand spill over into other companies and theaters? 

I would think no theater worker wants to be treated like a second class citizen compared to the others working under that roof.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 4:17pm

unclevictor said: "Says the troll.
Of course u don’t want to talk about it!
Just more dog whistles.
Change will never happen with people like u"

More muddle. More Trump-like childishness on your part. If you seriously wanted to engage on any of this you would desist in saying ignorant things (and the particular ignorance to which I refer is that you know nothing about me and persist in saying things that are based on (that) nothing-ness). Have you ever once stated what it is you are advocating? It seems not. And why? Because you are too childish to be able to defend a thesis. Good riddance.

[Jaxson2]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 4:45pm

Instead of attacking each other, how about making relevant comments.  

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 6:26pm

Jaxson2 said: "Instead of attacking each other, how about making relevant comments."

That's exactly what I was asking that troll to do. You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip and you cannot make relevant comments to a troll. A few quick relevant comments to you (skipping over Comet because this was all rehearsed long before you got here last week and it behooves you to search for that and read it if you are interested). 

1. Yes short term ticket buying will soon fade and will need to be replaced by tourists (for the tourist-oriented propeties), which is what makes me nervous, and locals for the shows that do not rely on tourists (sadly, few and far between).

2. Why would Seat Geek vs. TM alter the # of box office employees? I can't fathom the difference. Tech has already altered the function of box offices but the basics remain. 

3. You can't just join (hardly?) any theatrical unions. 

4. As I said before, there are very few non-union jobs in a Broadway house. Contrary to a silly suggestion to the contrary by someone or other above. (Probably a troll.)

5. You are correct, as someone else observed earlier, that reform requires institutional change. But most of what you itemize is either at the margins or not relevant. If all you are talking about is the merch et al employees, that's practically nothing. And if you are talking about Rudin, that confounds two unrelated categories of abuse. Some of the things you mention as in need of reform are things I doubt you would find much support for (poor pay and unpaid hours?) and others fall squarely within the province of the extant collective bargaining relationships. 

Respectfully, I think some of your comments betray a lack of familiarity with the status quo, which is fine. We all learn as we go. I encourage you to learn more about these areas, ask questions, and contribute in a positive way. 

[Jaxson2]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 9:39pm

HogansHero said: "Jaxson2 said: "Instead of attacking each other, how about making relevant comments."

That's exactly what I was asking that troll to do. You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip and you cannot make relevant comments to a troll. 

Then don't.

1. Yes short term ticket buying will soon fade and will need to be replaced by tourists (for the tourist-oriented properties), which is what makes me nervous, and locals for the shows that do not rely on tourists (sadly, few and far between). 

Why does it make you nervous, unless it affects your job in that area? I'm tired of paying for shows and waiting months for a refund, ala TM.  Poor sales may cut performances or shows, I presume.

2. Why would Seat Geek vs. TM alter the # of box office employees? I can't fathom the difference. Tech has already altered the function of box offices, but the basics remain.

Have you bought any tickets lately?  Tech affects every industry. Purchases, exchanges, refunds are online. TM shut down its email & phone service. Jujamcyn stated they're going "digital." Telecharge and TM not offering Will Call, instructing buyers to print ticket or download to phone. If the majority of sales are online, why 2-4 BO workers if theater can manage w/fewer? Perhaps the online craze will fade as theaters resume normalcy, but I doubt in the long run. Tech affected orchestras. 

3. You can't just join (hardly?) any theatrical unions.

Re-read. I clearly stated that I was unaware which invited an explanation from someone who did. Sarcasm unnecessary.

4. As I said before, there are very few non-union jobs in a Broadway house. Contrary to a silly suggestion to the contrary by someone or other above. (Probably a troll.)

I am not a troll and my comments are not silly. For every theater, there are personnel working in non-union jobs in the theater industry who collectively make up more than what is needed for a sports (baseball?) team.And those personnel provide a valuable and necessary service to patrons.  How many box office people per show?  Two? Four?  Same number for non-union jobs per theater, and in the case of high demand, sometimes more than 4.  When show latecomers arrive & must remain in the lobby, what worker stays with them? Not the ushers.  

5. You are correct, as someone else observed earlier, that reform requires institutional change. But most of what you itemize is either at the margins or not relevant. If all you are talking about is the merch et al employees, that's practically nothing. And if you are talking about Rudin, that confounds two unrelated categories of abuse. Some of the things you mention as in need of reform are things I doubt you would find much support for (poor pay and unpaid hours?) and others fall squarely within the province of the extant collective bargaining relationships.

Workers are relevant & something. Workers find alot of support in agencies/courts. Employment law is rather broad in application. 

Respectfully, I think some of your comments betray a lack of familiarity with the status quo, which is fine. We all learn as we go. I encourage you to learn more about these areas, ask questions, and contribute in a positive way."

You make an inaccurate conclusory statement. I have years more experience than you know. For areas beyond my knowledge, I admitted as much & welcomed info from others. My tenure with a chat room IS irrelevant. I don't have the time for posting nonsense. And nothing in my postings have been negative. As for Comet, I have extensive knowledge of those sad events. And you never answered my question which was: did you ever see Comet?

Finally, if you think tech's affect is done, read Forbes. Think of all the bots that answer calls. Printed Will Call tickets may become a memory, sadly.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/10/27/us-lost-over-60-million-jobs-now-robots-tech-and-artificial-intelligence-will-take-millions-more/?sh=70db00c91a52

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/11/21 at 11:38pm

@Jaxson, I thought from the tone of your previous post that you were interested in understanding but, despite you statement more or less saying that, you seem to be on a huge defensive tear. That's too bad. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt once more and respond to you substantive, and see how you react.

Jaxson2 said: "HogansHero said: "Jaxson2 said: "Instead of attacking each other, how about making relevant comments."

That's exactly what I was asking that troll to do. You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip and you cannot make relevant comments to a troll.

Then don't.

You don't get to come here 4 days ago and change the dynamic of this board. Sorry. When people post BS here, they get called on it. If you don't like how we roll, then maybe this is not a good place for you to hang out, but I don't think everyone is gonna just adjust the way we function based on your preferences. 

1. Yes short term ticket buying will soon fade and will need to be replaced by tourists (for the tourist-oriented properties), which is what makes me nervous, and locals for the shows that do not rely on tourists (sadly, few and far between).

Why does it make you nervous, unless it affects your job in that area? I'm tired of paying for shows and waiting months for a refund, ala TM. Poor sales may cut performancesor shows, I presume.

You seem to be missing the point which is that tourist-dependent shows will need tourists for oxygen and it is not at all clear they are going to come rushing back. In fact, the folks who do tourism for a living think it will take years. That's why the huge numbers of these tourist shows that have reopened makes me (and a lot of others) nervous. As you will learn if you hang around, some of us are interested in the vitality of Broadway from a business perspective as well as in terms of what's presented. And that's true whether we are working on a particular show or have money invested in it. The business with refunds seems like a non-sequitur to what I was talking about but yeah that's no bueno. And yes, poor sales will close shows. My concern is that it snowballs before snowball season.

2. Why would Seat Geek vs. TM alter the # of box office employees? I can't fathom the difference. Tech has already altered the function of box offices, but the basics remain.

Have you bought any tickets lately? Tech affects every industry. Purchases,exchanges,refunds are online. TM shut down its email &phone service. Jujamcyn stated they're going "digital." Telecharge and TM not offeringWill Call, instructing buyers to print ticket or download to phone.If the majority of sales are online, why 2-4 BO workers if theater can manage w/fewer? Perhaps the online craze will fade as theaters resume normalcy, but I doubt in the long run. Tech affected orchestras.

I really don't think you are engaging on the point, and you did not answer my question, instead offering some random observations. You had landed on SeatGeek, and my point is that what happens in the box office is not dependent on which platform is doing the ticketing. It seems like you are unaware that the move to online tickets on Broadway is not a "craze" and is not remotely a new thing or a covid-related thing. It also doesn't seem like you know anything about what a box office does, and how tickets have evolved over the last decade+. From what I am hearing, the box office may be doing more this coming fall than it was doing in the fall of 2019, but there is a lot of process that has yet to be worked out. 
 

 


3. You can't just join (hardly?) any theatrical unions.

Re-read. I clearly stated that I was unaware which invitedan explanation fromsomeone who did. Sarcasm unnecessary.

4. As I said before, there are very few non-union jobs in a Broadway house. Contrary to a silly suggestion to the contrary by someone or other above. (Probably a troll.)

I am not a troll and my comments are not silly. For every theater, there are personnel working in non-union jobs in the theater industrywhocollectively make up more than what is needed for a sports (baseball?) team.And those personnel provide a valuable and necessary service to patrons. How many box office peopleper show? Two? Four? Same number for non-union jobs per theater, and in the case of high demand, sometimes more than 4. When show latecomers arrive & must remainin the lobby, what worker stays with them? Not the ushers.

I was not thinking you were a troll. About the number of non-union jobs, you are wrong. No other way to say that. Maybe if you want to itemize what you are thinking of, we can resolve the confusion. 

5. You are correct, as someone else observed earlier, that reform requires institutional change. But most of what you itemize is either at the margins or not relevant. If all you are talking about is the merch et al employees, that's practically nothing. And if you are talking about Rudin, that confounds two unrelated categories of abuse. Some of the things you mention as in need of reform are things I doubt you would find much support for (poor pay and unpaid hours?) and others fall squarely within the province of the extant collective bargaining relationships.

Workers are relevant &something.Workers findalot of support in agencies/courts. Employment law is rather broad in application.

No clue what you are talking about. Please do not insult our intelligence by suggesting I said workers are irrelevant. Clearly, what you itemized is irrelevant. Maybe it would help if you connect the dots a little. What are you trying to say?

Respectfully, I think some of your comments betray a lack of familiarity with the status quo, which is fine. We all learn as we go. I encourage you to learn more about these areas, ask questions, and contribute in a positive way."

You make an inaccurate conclusory statement. I have yearsmore experience than you know. For areas beyond my knowledge, I admitted as much & welcomed info from others. My tenure with a chat room IS irrelevant. I don't have the time forposting nonsense.And nothing in my postings have been negative. As for Comet, I have extensive knowledge of those sad events. And you never answered my question whichwas: did youever see Comet?

You are clearly dancing around the point which is that you are manifestly unfamiliar with THIS business in other than the most superficial ways. I am not trying to insult you; it's just a baseline that you know is correct. Maybe I am wrong but I took what you had written earlier as indicating a desire to learn but now it seems you want to do the teaching, without knowing what you are talking about. That's disappointing. 

I wouldn't say your tenure here is irrelevant because people learn over time both how things work here, the personalities, and most importantly, some of the knowledge that lets you make valuable contributions. 

Did I see Comet? Yes. Twice. But that has hardly anything to do with what I said about what went down. I doubt you know anything about that beyond what you gather from a seat in the theatre. If so, sketch out what you are referring to because TBH I think you will be hard pressed to find an experienced Broadway producer or GM who doesn't think the whole thing was handled incompetently by someone who had no idea what they were doing because producing theatre was just a rich couple's toy. That broke..

Finally, if you think tech's affect is done, readForbes. Think of all the bots that answer calls. Printed Will Call tickets may become a memory, sadly.

what does this have to do with what we are talking about? Will call has been a dodo for a decade at least, except for comps and that's a problem easily solved. Why is that sad? And what does that have to do with post-Rudin worker improvements which is the putative subject?

Fingers crossed this post by you is not what you plan for your post-week one tenure here. You'll have a bumpy ride on this Board otherwise.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 12:21am

You don't get to come here 4 days ago and change the dynamic of this board. Sorry.

Oh good grief get off your high horse already! YOU don’t run these boards. Jaxson can say whatever he wants and change the dynamic if he wants to! Get over it.

STOP being a bully and stop being a troll.  Stop trying to “correct” everything everyone posts here. YOU are not the be all end all of all things theatre, and contrary to what u may think, u don’t know everything. In fact, you’ve been quite wrong on a number of things. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 12:28am

unclevictor said: "In fact, you’ve been quite wrong on a number of things."

For anyone who cares, this is a perfect example of trolling. Claims without names. Name one thing I have been wrong about. (I have been wrong, but the thing is, I acknowledge it. I also don't make assertions without articulating their bases. PS, making assertions and backing them up is not bullying. You should try it some time.) 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 12:54am

Hogan gets a weird power boner with this stuff. Just go with it.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 1:03am

SouthernCakes said: "Hogan gets a weird power boner with this stuff. Just go with it. "

Ha! To quote Meryl Streep in Death Becomes Her:

”Flaccid, Flaaccid, FFFFFLLLLAAAACCCIDD!!”

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 8:36am

unclevictor said: "You don't get to come here 4 days ago and change the dynamic of this board. Sorry.

Oh good grief get off your high horse already! YOU don’t run these boards. Jaxson can say whatever he wants and change the dynamic if he wants to! Get over it.

STOP being a bully and stop being a troll. Stop trying to “correct” everything everyone posts here. YOU are not the be all end allof all things theatre, and contrary to what u may think, u don’t know everything. In fact, you’ve been quite wrong on a number of things."

This is rich. Especially since you equate those who disagree with your thinking of/handling the issue of BIPOC on Broadway to those who support white supremacy. I mean, I don’t agree with your take on it. So, does that mean I should be signing up for the next Klan rally?

[unclevictor]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 9:32am

This is rich. Especially since you equate those who disagree with your thinking of/handling the issue of BIPOC on Broadway to those who support white supremacy. I mean, I don’t agree with your take on it. So, does that mean I should be signing up for the next Klan rally?"

Ha! Ha! I never said that, nice try. I could careless if u agree or not. And the only advice I can give u is that u shouldn’t encourage others to join a Klan rally. Not a good look grand wizard islanderfan 

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 9:54am

unclevictor said: "
This is rich. Especially since you equate those who disagree with your thinking of/handling the issue of BIPOC on Broadway to those who support white supremacy. I mean, I don’t agree with your take on it. So, does that mean I should be signing up for the next Klan rally?"

Ha! Ha! I never said that, nice try. I could careless if u agree or not. And the only advice I can give u is that u shouldn’t encourage others to join a Klan rally. Not a good look grand wizard islanderfan"

Well, you pretty much did. Seeing as you did call a few posters on here to be in favor of white supremacy for not agreeing with you.

[Playbill_Trash]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 12:53pm

This still leaves the question of what "post-Rudin" worker improvements even means or wants to be for people that actually work in Broadway productions - backstage or on stage. Since the victims of Rudin's abuse were his own employees of his own private company, what are the creatives, actors, and crew asking for since they were not the victims of his behavior in the first place?

I am genuinely asking, is the outrage that the HR story sparked implying that there are other people in similar leadership positions in charge of actors and union members that are inflicting similar abuse on them - but they just have not been named yet? Are actors saying they have been abused (smashing hands, throwing objects) by other bosses that should also "step away"?

Because unless their argument is that their specific work environment is abusive and toxic the same way that Rudin made it for his employees, then they really are not related to the story at all. The abuse from Rudin never reached the talent, it was to his employees. I am not saying it is right for him to behave that way - those employees do not deserve to be treated that way. I am just trying to follow the string of logic from the abuse of Rudin towards his employees to how it affects the actors and what improvements they are asking for.

If anyone has insight on some of these logic gaps (e.g. people that have not been named etc) please explain.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 1:32pm

I feel like there is stuff going on (William Ivey Long) but it gets hushed real fast! Or even the “me too” Broadway article that was quickly shelved. There’s a ton of it in the industry. Most of my qualms have been from casting director just treating actors like complete trash and less than.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 1:43pm

SouthernCakes said: "I feel like there is stuff going on (William Ivey Long) but it gets hushed real fast! Or even the “me too” Broadway article that was quickly shelved. There’s a ton of it in the industry. Most of my qualms have been from casting director just treating actors like complete trash and less than. "

Because the almighty dollar talks! Broadway needs to open and make $$$ so let’s just sweep all that bad stuff under the rug and deal with it later (never). When will people wake up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

I could write a book about all the abusers on Broadway. Groping designers, directors dangling roles in front of gay and straight men in exchange for sex, stage managers covering up sexual harassment, big time producers making threats and covering up sexual harassment cases, unions looking the other way with members showing up drunk and high, unions sending people away to get clean instead of notifying the police, actors threatening crew members - that’s just some.

but hey, bway is open!! That’s more important 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 1:46pm

Honestly I think it has to do with power and how interchange actors are. Like, if they complain about a designer it’s easier to just replace the actor than it is the designer. Look at Broadway there are like 5 costume designers and 5 set designers that just constantly work.

[veronicamae]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 1:54pm

unclevictor said: "SouthernCakes said: "I feel like there is stuff going on (William Ivey Long) but it gets hushed real fast! Or even the “me too” Broadway article that was quickly shelved. There’s a ton of it in the industry. Most of my qualms have been from casting director just treating actors like complete trash and less than. "

Because the almighty dollar talks! Broadway needs to open and make $$$ so let’s just sweep all that bad stuff under the rug and deal with it later (never). When will people wake up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

I could write a book about all the abusers on Broadway. Groping designers, directors dangling roles in front of gay and straight men in exchange for sex, stage managers covering up sexual harassment, big time producers making threats andcovering up sexual harassment cases, unions looking the other way with members showing up drunk and high, unions sending people away to get clean instead of notifying the police, actors threatening crew members - that’s just some.

but hey, bway is open!! That’s more important"

Then why don't you write the book since you know All The Things instead of incessantly screaming at everyone on this board that people need to "wake up." We only know what is made public, and from there, it's up to people to make their own decisions on what they want to do, from not buying a ticket to changing careers. 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 2:27pm

veronicamae said: "unclevictor said: "SouthernCakes said: "I feel like there is stuff going on (William Ivey Long) but it gets hushed real fast! Or even the “me too” Broadway article that was quickly shelved. There’s a ton of it in the industry. Most of my qualms have been from casting director just treating actors like complete trash and less than. "

Because the almighty dollar talks! Broadway needs to open and make $$$ so let’s just sweep all that bad stuff under the rug and deal with it later (never). When will people wake up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

I could write a book about all the abusers on Broadway. Groping designers, directors dangling roles in front of gay and straight men in exchange for sex, stage managers covering up sexual harassment, big time producers making threats andcovering up sexual harassment cases, unions looking the other way with members showing up drunk and high, unions sending people away to get clean instead of notifying the police, actors threatening crew members - that’s just some.

but hey, bway is open!! That’s more important"

Then why don't you write the book since you know All The Things instead of incessantly screaming at everyone on this board that people need to "wake up." We only know what is made public, and from there, it's up to people to make their own decisions on what they want to do, from not buying a ticket to changing careers."

I will write the book, but I’ve done something better. I have  called out the abusers to their faces, i’ve went to stage managers, company managers, general managers, producers, I have filed countless complaints with unions, and in a few cases spoke with lawyers and even the police. Nothing has happened. It’s all taken seriously (at  least in the moment) and then... nothing. Years ago I’ve must have filed 4 harassment claims against an actor and instead of them getting fired, they got promoted. PROMOTED.