FANGS FOR NOTHING, FRANK - nypost.com- Page 2

[LaeloftheLakes]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 3:11pm

Disgusting. While it is his music, this is such a slap in the face to the cast. And go Raul!

[LaeloftheLakes]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 3:12pm

Disgusting. While it is his music, this is such a slap in the face to the cast. And go Raul!

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 3:12pm

WOSQ, in that email, Wildhorn states that he could not find an outside company willing to record it, so he's spending his personal money to do the CD.

[midtowngym]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 3:13pm

How are the actors screwed? They were gainfully employed for months and received a paycheck. It's frustrating for them, but it's not in their contract to record a cast album. It's a BUSINESS, and in no other business do employees feel entitled to things like they do in show business. It's amazing to me.

Updated On: 12/15/04 at 03:13 PM

[Craig]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 3:18pm

"It's a BUSINESS, and in no other business do employees feel entitled to things like they do in show business."

Really? How long have you been in the working sector? I don't think Show Business is the one to compare entitlement to.

[midtowngym]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 3:20pm

why not? I've been working over 20 years (although it's nice you think i'm a youngster even after we've met, Craig.)

Updated On: 12/15/04 at 03:20 PM

[Craig]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 3:35pm

Age needn't be a determining factor for how long you've been in the work environment

My point is, that employees in just about every work place feel they are entitled to many things. That was my one and only point.

[WOSQ]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 3:48pm

Who owns the Grand Rights? If the production company does, then the music does not belong entirely to Wildhorn and his collaborators. The production company would share in the subsidiary income if any. The same company would be responsible for paying the actors what might be due them for in this case, not making the album.

The Grand Rights are usually controlled by the production company until the last first class production closes. I cannot imagine the producers ceding the music rights in toto back to Wildhorn.

Legally it sounds like a triangle: Actors vs production company and then the company vs Wildhorn to recover those labor costs that they had to pay to the Equity talent.

If Wildhorn really wanted to save money, he'd use synthesizers and pay three musicians to do the work of fifteen.

But he wouldn't dare try that with AFM Local 802. Or would he?

[Craig]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 3:57pm

All I'll add now is that this could/would set a scary precedent for the future of cast recordings....

[MagicToDo82]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 3:59pm

Sort of on this topic.....Didn't really want to start another thread and get bashed, so Im putting it here:

Isn't there a concept recording of Dracula with Chuck Wagner, Douglas Sills, and some others? Where can I go about scoring that? Or is it just an unreleased demo thing? If I'm not going to be able to get the OBC, I'll at least get Chuck~*

This said, I am officially too curious about the music to this show to have ethics anymore...:)

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 4:02pm

What a greedy, cheap b*stard! First, he adapts only public domain works so he doesn't have to pay any fees for them, then he screws the Broadway cast over because he doesn't want to pay their fees! I believe he owes the cast something for having to perform his drivel every night. God knows he can probably afford the $500k to pay for it, but won't.

Now that he's screwed over his cast and producers, maybe this will mean his work will never see the light of Broadway again. Hopefully.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 4:07pm

"its business"

boy, frank should go to the donald's hairpiece man so they can be alike in looks too

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 4:10pm

What I want to know is do you think this will hurt his chances for a Best Score Tony? Hmmmm, perhaps.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 4:12pm

can they just hurry the fu*k up I want the damn CD! Frank did everything he could. And you know what, lotsa shows open and close on Broadway without ever getting an OBCR. And at the end of the day it's not really even the cast's business what Frank does with his own songs. Updated On: 12/15/04 at 04:12 PM

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 4:34pm

Good grief, what a story.

WOSQ, original cast recordings of Broadway musicals don't always fall under the category of "Grand Rights."

I believe that every show has it's own contractual nuances, but Whildhorn is probably operating from the understanding of the music industry's version, which are known as "Mechanical Rights." Mechanical rights protect a composer from having his songs recorded THE FIRST TIME only. Once a song has been recorded, by anyone, everyone else in the world is free to record it. They have to pay royalties to ASCAP or BMI or SESAC, but they don't need permission to record the song, providing that it has been recorded once. However, a composer owns the mechanical rights to any composition he has written, and he or she has the final say regarding who records those songs initially.

As Whildhorn is from the music industry, he might be trying to play by those rules, as that's what he knows. In the music industry, the composer of songs always gets financial renumeration for his work. The singer on a record doesn't get royalties; but the composer always does. Wildhorn has made a fortune from "This is the Moment," because every time some television network airs it for a figure skater, he gets money.

Which brings up the real nasty thing, if this story is true. Wildhorn will always get financial renumeration from DRACULA once it has been recorded. Actors never get a penny from a cast recording's royalties, other than their initial recording session fees. Actor's Equity has very stringent policies regarding the recordings of Broadway shows, and Wildhorn will be screwed if he did what that article implied that he did.

It's fine for him to put up his own money to record his show. But he cannot use his actors without paying them the Equity salary for recording a cast album. Nor should he. He has the potential of making money from the venture; the actors do not.

[sanda]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 4:47pm

sorry guys, I have to disappoint you. I did not watch the show and had no interest to see it or listen to the original cast recording. But if James Barbour is in, I definitely want to listen. That comes from a Barbour fan.

[Luke0827]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 6:24pm

Blame the union. Frank Wildhorn tried to go about getting the recording produced with the original cast, but because of the union rules about pay, cost-conscious record labels said no. I find it hard to blame the record labels for doing so. I also find it hard to blame Frank Wildhorn for coming up with a pretty creative alternative (and the funding) to create a concept recording with a cast of his choosing avoiding prohibitive payroll. You see, the union has an all or nothing attitude. Either you do things their way, or you don't do them at all. Frank Wildhorn wanted very much to use the original cast which is why he tried to sign a deal for an original recording using the original cast. (As an aside, it's not any kind of an inherent right that once an actor is cast in a show that he/she automatically gets to do the recording, unless it is specified in one's contract -- look at the recording for "Rags" for example which was made without the original leading lady). It's Frank's music, and he and his fans want an album, and if the show is ever to make money it will need an album to draw attention to it so regional theaters can become attracted to it. I realize this is emotional for the cast, and they understandably feel excluded, but the real road block for the original cast album is the union. Wildhorn is not the villan, he's doing the best he can

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 6:36pm

Good points, Luke.

But even listening to your defense of Wildhorn, I don't think he's in the right here.

"Blame the Union" doesn't wash with me. The particular union we're talking about, Actor's Equity, isn't an overly demanding union, in the grand scheme of things. They just want their members to get what they deserve. While they may occasionally seem unreasonable, their motives stem from the desire to protect the rights of their constituency. And fact it, actors need as much help in that regard as they can get.

Regarding Wildhorn, all of these rumors are coming from a Michael Riedel column in the NY Post, which is not the best source for factal information. It may be true; on the other hand, it may be something that Riedel pulled out of his bum. As you probably know, he has a tendancy to do that sort of thing.

[robbiej]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 6:41pm

Sorry, it's not a 'concept' recording. That's ridiculous. A 'concept' recording, at least as it has always been, is a recording of music theatre that has yet to find a production. Am I wrong on this? If so, I apologize, but I have a hard time swallowing this as a 'concept' recording.

Blame the Unions? Oh yes...are you f*cking kidding me??? People stand to make quite a bit of money off this recording, except the performers. They get about a week's salaray, maybe two. No a particularly grand sum.

It is appalling that he started this process without telling the cast. That's just bad form. And is 19 weeks REALLY that long to wait? They did it for AMOUR, didn't they?

[broadwaystar2b]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 6:49pm

Well, this does give me even more respect for Raul Esparza if nothing else

[Craig]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 6:57pm

VeuveClicquot

re: Michael Riedel. Did you read the full article? He has quotes from the union, Frank, etc. Doesn't sound like he's making this up...

[VeuveClicquot]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 7:09pm

Craig,

I don't know the facts of this situation. We're all basing our comments on a Riedel column, and while his column appeared persuasive, he does have a tendency to make things up. He also reports a lot of truth. I tend to take him with a grain of salt, however, because he's been proven a liar one too many times for my taste. That doesn't mean that this particular piece of information is incorrect. But absent concrete proof, I remain a suspect of Riedel's trustworthiness, and even though I dislike Wildhorn immensely, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise, especially when his denouncer is Michael Riedel.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 7:30pm

19 weeks after Jan 2nd, he can use the original cast without having to paying their Equity salaries. but why do that when we can have a DREAM cast record the songs and then even get to include songs that the producers shucked out of the version on Broadway? Personally, I'd much prefer a concept album so we can have an official recording of "The Invitation" and other songs that didn't make it into the show as it is. the original cast members are not entitled to perform on any cast recording unless it was stated so in their contracts, right? and it probably wasn't. So they're screwed. the end. now gimmie the damn CD. Updated On: 12/15/04 at 07:30 PM

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 7:37pm

and can we please call it a studio cast recording? because that is essentially what it will be... DRACULA THE MUSICAL: 2004 STUDIO CAST RECORDING.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/15/04 at 8:51pm

Wildhorn is fighting for his life.

The critics are openly hostile to him & will never give any of his shows reviews that would allow a long run. There was no cast recording of Civil War . I was unaware of the tremendous costs entailed with making a cast album & I see why many shows go unrecorded

The man is protecting his future . His music is his only asset & I do not blame him for what he is doing. The restrictive union rules seem to be the problem. If the union would give a waiver, maybe he could use the original cast. He has an upcoming tour so he needs the recording now. What is he supposed to do?

I want to hear the music. I would prefer the OBC but if that is not feasible & would stop a recording from being made, use the other cast