Yesterday's Flops - Today's Hits?

[Craig]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 8:17pm

Ok everyone... here's a question for you...

What bombs of the past do you think if they were produced today would/could be hits?

What shows from the past that were hits would bomb today?

The rules: This isn't about revivals. For example - if you were going to pick "Flower Drum Song" for example (and I'm just picking this at random) you can't use that as an example that a shoe from the past would bomb today because the revival did. We're talking original productions.

Let's see what the board says!

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 8:25pm

Assassins.

While not a flop (it sold out Playwrights Horizon) I don't believe it made back its investment and failed to transfer to Broadway. But I think that that production with the original cast would have fared just as well as the recent revival.

Updated On: 7/6/05 at 08:25 PM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 9:07pm

Assassins did fine for Roundabout. Being a not-for-profit it's difficult to determine these things, but from Todd Haimes statements about it and why they pulled the plug when they did, it seems that it "recouped" what had been expended for the show in Roundabout budget for it that year. However, after a certain period (15 weeks I believe) not-for-profits on Broadway like Roundabout and LTC and MTC have to convert from a LORT A contract to the much more expensive Standard Production contract. When that was about to happen, according to Haimes, there weren't enough in advance sales to merit an extension (almost nothing), which is why they closed it when they did.

The fact is, there is an extremely limited audience for a show about the people who killed presidents, especially on Broadway. This last revival might have been able to run a few more months, but that show can never be a commercial hit

Updated On: 7/6/05 at 09:07 PM

[Jimmyojimmy]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 9:15pm

I know this wasnt a complete flop, but I would love to see Tom Foolery revived, especially since bway is so intune with dry, British humor (thank you SPAMalot )
I would love to see the set for "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park" haha

[Hairspraydoll]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 9:21pm

Do you think Tom Sawyer would have made it if it was produced back in the earlier days?

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 9:23pm

Carrie

Updated On: 7/8/05 at 09:23 PM

[Aigoo]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 9:24pm

I think shows like Wicked might flop because it demands a certain interest in that genre of music. Right now, we're in a generation that particularly likes that poppish-sound (non-theatre goers and thespians alike), so you'd have to see what type of music would appeal to the audience.

[Jimmyojimmy]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 9:26pm

If they gave dracula a huge Makeover, maybe it would be a little more appealing.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 7/6/05 at 9:31pm

I found Tom Sawyer to be an uninspired bore of a show that would have flopped in exactly the same way 50 years ago as it did when it opened a few seasons back. The score and book were very mediocre -- perhaps another creative team could have come up with a better show from the source material.

Carrie I think had lots of potential that was destroyed by Terry Hands and Debbie Allen, the director and choreographer, respectively. It obviously needs major rewrites, but I think that that show could possibly work with a first-rate director (and better songs for the non-mother-daughter scenes).

Updated On: 7/8/05 at 09:31 PM

Posted: 7/6/05 at 11:22pm

THE GOLDEN APPLE in a new first-class mounting would be more successful than it was when originally produced in 1954, in my opinion.

The score is brilliant, with both music and lyrics holding their own yet complementing each other superbly. The book itself is clever and witty and intelligent. The basic story has stood the test of time (latest reinvention being Brad Pitt's "Troy"). A critic's darling when it originally opened off Broadway, the transfer to Broadway was less so.

In equally brilliant hands (producer-director-choreographer) working with a high caliber cast, THE GOLDEN APPLE could be shaped to appeal to the younger generation of admirers of Broadway musicals. A show that works on many levels and satisfies all ages.

This is a musical lover's dream.

Anyone ready to invest?

[Unmasked05]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 12:18am

Legs Diamond.....Just JOKING...it would still be a FLOP

Dance of The Vampire.....would be a HIT if it opened again...I know it just closed but it would be a HIT now if it had not have been changed.

[wonderland]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 3:59am

Honestly, I would say a lot from the past would bomb today- Broadway is commercialized and caters to a specific audience now, and it's not the specific audience it used to cater to. The Sondheim trifold (Company, Follies, ALNM) would bomb, as would everything L&L wrote except maybe (MAYBE) My Fair Lady. Loesser would stand a fighting chance, because people would see his shows as pastiche along the lines of TMM. Ironically, if Carrie opened today, it would probably be seen as a contender- it's writing is no worse than say, DRS's.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 4:49am

Did any of you actually READ the question? It asked for shows that were out-and-out flops in seasons gone by that could be successfuly revived now. (Notice how the WICKED airheads always manage to twist every thread to mention that show.)

MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG is perhaps most deserving of a 2nd Broadway run (with the revised script as used in Washington but restoring the opening and closing graduation scenes.) With a really great cast it might draw enough to run a season but let's not kid ourselves, a Broadway that keeps garbage shows running 10 or 20 years is never going to welcome musicals with unusual structures. That is why LAST 5 YEARS played a limited run off-Broadway.

Most shows FLOP with good reason and that reason is usually the book. Many great scores have been sunk by unworkable books: MACK AND MABEL is a prime example. Shows like GOLDILOCKS, DEAR WORLD, SAIL AWAY, WALKING HAPPY etc never worked on stage and never will.

[wonderland]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 4:52am

What exactly did I do wrong in my response, oh great one?

And... maybe you should reread the original post. It specifically said "this is not about revivals." The question is, in the parallel universe where these shows did not debut in the years they actually debuted, but instead debuted in what in our universe is called 2005, which would hit and which would miss.

Ugh, there's one in every community. Updated On: 7/7/05 at 04:52 AM

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 6:12am

The question asks:
"What bombs of the past do you think if they were produced today would/could be hits?"

and my point was that most bombs were shows that failed with good reason. Even the original CANDIDE with Lillian Hellman's book failed because the book and the score did not go together.
If the Hellman CANDIDE were staged today - even as a new show - it would still bomb. (I have the script and it is all wrong for the spirit of the piece.)

Hell, even many hits of the 50s and 60s have weak or clumsy books that don't really work for modern audiences.

Maybe THE RINK if it were produced now as a new show with two powerhouse leads could get a run, though again that is a show that requires some thought from audience members.

[Broadway_Bound_Star]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 6:51am

Well, I think Carrie would do A
WESOME if it would be revived. and I also think that Passions could me re,made and do a lot better the what it had done before.

[magruder]

Posted: 7/7/05 at 7:05am

A lot of Merrily fans do considerable hand-wringing over the graduation scenes and "Hills of Tomorrow" being dropped in the revised version. I don't miss them. For me, those scenes overstate the show's theme and hit it home with a sledgehammer. We get it, we get it. 'Don't sell out. Be true to yourself.' Building up to and ending with the rooftop scene and "Our Time" does the same thing, but with subtlety, and several heart-stopping moments. (Frank's line, "I just met the girl I ought to marry" gets me every time). "Hills" is a lovely song, and it's important musically, because everything Frank writes is based on the song's opening notes. But I don't think it's needed anymore, dramatically.

Updated On: 7/7/05 at 07:05 AM

Posted: 7/8/05 at 12:42am

I think Little Shop could have done quite well on Broadway today if it had the original cast, etc. Scarlet Pimpernel too perhaps; by the umpteenth version I thought they'd really ironed out a lot of the kinks and created a fun show. And based on the responses to concerts and the like, Passion probably wouldn't be a hit today, but I think would fare better.

[WonderBoy]

Posted: 7/8/05 at 10:44am

I actually think LEGS DIAMOND would do well if brought back now. Sure, the book needs tweaking but the music is good. I think Broadway needs those feel good big song and dance shows again. SINGIN' IN THE RAIN is another one that comes to mind as long as they use the non-Broadway version. Twyla, Twyla, Twyla... what where you thinking? I think if it were put on stage with the "regional" script that is much more like the film it do very well.

"And I caaaan't stan' 'im"
"Cahhhhhn't"
"Caaaaaaan't"

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 7/8/05 at 12:24pm

Wicked still, in my opinion, would be a hit if it originally opened in say, 20 years. Tourists won't stop coming to NYC any time soon and love big, extravagant shows.

[sanda]

Posted: 7/8/05 at 2:56pm

Flop past, hit today:

Chess

[CastAlbumFan]

Posted: 7/8/05 at 3:37pm

I think THE ROBBER BRIDEGROOM would have a chance at succeeding today.

SWEENEY TODD closed at a loss. If the show had opened today, do you think it would have turned a profit?

[WonderBoy]

Posted: 7/8/05 at 3:40pm

I agree about THE ROBBER BRIDEGROOM. Paging Hugh Jackman. He'd be hot as Jaime Lockheart!

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 7/8/05 at 3:44pm

As far as Sweeney, we'll see whether it will fare better with today's audiences when the latest revival opens in the Fall.

Posted: 7/8/05 at 4:32pm

SWEENEY TODD closed at a loss. If the show had opened today, do you think it would have turned a profit?

I think there's two different questions involved though:
1. If it opened today, would it have made a profit? And
2. If it opened today, would it have run longer?

Theoretically, if it opened today under the same set/cast, it would have cost more. Shows seem to need to run longer nowadays to turn a profit.

As for the Roundabout, Margot, we'll see how it fares but I think it's a different case. This Sweeney may become *much* more profitable. Simply because the cast is so small, and the orchestra *is* the cast. Also smaller sets... a Teeney Todd would have to run much less time to receive a profit than the original huge production.