Academy takes historic action to increase diversity- Page 6

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 6:00am

FindingNamo said: "Why yes, I watch performances all the time.  It's just that I don't pretend I don't notice the race and ethnicity of performers (I'm a multi-tacker!) so I can claim racism isn't a thing."

 

Oh yes, it's a thing, no one denies that.

 

But to claim it is in everything that does not include a black person is a point you can't make.

 

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 6:08am

FindingNamo said: "pick for "the best" the people who most resemble them.  And this is why it is a good idea to get away from the old and the male and the white as the dominant arbiters of who gets an Oscar.   NOT that it will necessarily result in immediate change.."

 

So you think people per definition pick only what resembles them? Then why are you so sure the new people won't do that? These are 2 assumptions you also can't make.

 

Of course this will not result in change. The origin of this problem lies somewhere else, where films are created.

 

Even if "diverse people" in the commitee will only pick what resembles them, it is still not the solution, but the opposite.

 

Updated On: 1/28/16 at 06:08 AM

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 6:16am

But to claim it is in everything that does not include a black person is a point you can't make.

 

You must be glad that no one here thinks that.

Updated On: 1/28/16 at 06:16 AM

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 8:28am

Reginald Tresilian said: "But to claim it is in everything that does not include a black person is a point you can't make.

 

 

 

You must be glad that no one here thinks that.

 

"

 

So whoever came up with the fable that it is happening at the Oscars? 

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 8:51am

It was this thread, for sure.  All the world's pop culture news originates here. 

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 9:45am

So whoever came up with the fable that it is happening at the Oscars? 

 

All I know is you came up with the fable that race never plays a part in anything that occurs in these United States of America.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 10:39am

So you think people per definition pick only what resembles them?

 

It's not an assumption.  I don't think it, I know it and the scads and scads and mountains and miles of behavioral research prove it.  It's called "homophily" and it is what people do.  And it's what happens at the all-white Oscars.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophily

 

Then why are you so sure the new people won't do that? 

 

I am not.  That's why a concerted effort to move away from a mostly white, mostly male, mostly old group of voters promises to give other great performances a chance at some Oscar recognition.

 

You have really run out of ways to keep saying, "Nuh uh, that's not true."  

 

 

[Petralicious]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 10:44am

FindingNamo said: "So you think people per definition pick only what resembles them?

t's not an assumption.  I don't think it, I know it and the scads and scads and mountains and miles of behavioral research prove it.  It's called "homophily" and it is what people do.  And it's what happens at the all-white Oscars.

 

 

"Its true.  It is exactly what Will Smith taught Margot Robbie in Focus

 

Updated On: 1/28/16 at 10:44 AM

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 11:45am

Reginald Tresilian said: "All I know is you came up with the fable that race never plays a part in anything that occurs in these United States of America."

 

Nope. Wrong. I never said anything close to that.

 

I said that not every situation that doesn't happen to have a black person in it is racism.

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 11:46am

And nobody said it did.  Why are you arguing against assertions only you have made?

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 11:51am

FindingNamo said: "So you think people per definition pick only what resembles them?

 

 It's not an assumption.  I don't think it, I know it

"

 

Not really, my favourite singer of all time for example is Whitney Houston. Just to name an example of thousands of what I "picked" in life.

 

But let's assume your fantasy were true. Then how does increasing diversity in the Oscars end up being an objective solution? You just add more bad guys.

 

The best option would be to screen the people elaborately and only pick people that have no complex about race whatsoever.

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:01pm

Try to pull your narcissism out of what the research proves groups of similar individuals do.  It's not a fantasy.  It's a proven fact.

 

I answered all these questions already in my 10:39 post.  Clearly, you don't understand.  Are you just not up to the task, intellectually?

[tazber]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:05pm

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:05pm

Are you able to determine what the solution is? Intellectually? 

 

Adding more bad guys, because everybody thinks that way, like you say, is not it.

Updated On: 1/28/16 at 12:05 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:16pm

Dave  has SSS, sleepy synapse syndrome.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:18pm

I can't understand what kind of mental glitch you have that has added "bad guys" to this narrative.

 

A discussion of human nature, scientifically verified human behavior, is not a discussion of "bad guys."  It's funny the nonsense you inject in this discussion.  I lay out the demonstrated behavior of human beings in the discussion of "homophily," which is about how people make decisions in groups, and you come back with the fact that you, one white person, love Whitney Houston.   The two things have nothing to do with each other.

 

Diversifying the voting block for the Oscars away from old, white and male is not adding more "bad guys."  It is increasing diversity and having a group less vulnerable to homophily.  

 

I'm sure you're going to misread this now, or come up with a new frame to add in like "bad guys," but once again this is all ON YOU.  Nobody is arguing the things you're pushing back against except yourself.

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:21pm

You said you accuse everybody of picking only what resembles them. That also means you think the new people are like this.

 

That is not good. That is bad. 

 

If the new people are just as bad, maybe even worse (bigger complex) then there is nothing to be proud of if you win anything. So, fighting for diversity is not the solution, fighting for complex-free people is. I'm sure there are some good psychological tests that can determine this.

Updated On: 1/28/16 at 12:21 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:26pm

I said I accuse everybody of picking only what resembles them?


You're not good at reading, or understanding the results of behavioral research, are you?

 

What is it in yourself that makes you, who seems to have a great deal of difficulty with comprehension, immediately respond to anything about race that RACE ISN'T IMPORTANT?


I think it's the overreaction of a guilty conscience.

 

Homophily is neither good nor bad, it is what HAPPENS.  Diversify the group, decisions are then no longer reflective of one homogenous group of decision makers.  Good and good.

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:28pm

FindingNamo said: "So you think people per definition pick only what resembles them?

 

 

 

It's not an assumption.  I don't think it, I know it "

 

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:30pm

FindingNamo said: "Homophily is neither good nor bad, it is what HAPPENS.  Diversify the group, decisions are then no longer reflective of one homogenous group of decision makers.  Good and good."

 

There is the core of the problem. A diverse group of people, where each person is picking only what resembles that person is BAD. Just as bad as a homogenous group that would do that. Thinking like that in general is bad. 

 

The solution lies not in the outward characteristics of the judges themselves but in the level of personal complex they have with race or other minority. Test that elaborately and you get an objective group of people, regardless of how they look. Adding people with the same or bigger complexes works as a good counterpart in your opinion? That is your solution? Then the prizes have worth? What on earth are you thinking?

 

Updated On: 1/28/16 at 12:30 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:37pm

I know it because I know the results of behavioral research.  It's demonstrated.  Tested and demonstrated again and again and again.  It's not just some wild notion I pull out of my ass like, "Homophily doesn't exist because I am a Whitney Houston fan and therefore diversifying the Oscar voters is more bad guys."   See, that's taking the bare bones of a researched fact and mangling it with your terrible logic model and arriving at, not only an insupportable conclusion, a demonstrably wrong one.

 

That, Dave, is YOUR problem.  Not the problem of people who see there's something wrong with the system and so come up with a way to perhaps shake up the entrenched rut the Oscar voters are in.  Your problem.

 

ETA:   "Test that elaborately and you get an objective group of people, regardless of how they look."  HA HA HA.  An OBJECTIVE group of people.  Oh god, the things that don't exist that you think exist.  "Test that elaborately?"  WTF are you going on about?

Updated On: 1/28/16 at 12:37 PM

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:47pm

It's not my problem at all, for all  I care the Oscar winners are all white or all black for 5 years in a row.

Talent above race, something like that. Not turning it around like saying more races choosing themselves is the solution.

 

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:50pm

Yeah, your fixation on this shows how little you care. 

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:51pm

FindingNamo said: "Test that elaborately?"  WTF are you going on about?

"

Well, you know, a psychological test to see how much worth a person actually gives to race and how much that person actually makes conclusions about that. Hyperventilating when you don't see your own race in the finalists is a good example of that.

Updated On: 1/28/16 at 12:51 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/28/16 at 12:52pm

Back to your myth of meritocracy.

 

Of course you "don't care."  Because facing the truth, looking at something in more than the superficial way you do, reveals the fact that things aren't what they claim to be.  In the Oscars, there is no objective "best."  There is what a group of voters favors.  And if the majority of the voters is homogenous, so will be their selections.  As demonstrated again and again and again and again.

 

Why is your dream land so important to you?  Do you feel implicated when issues of race are brought up?  You're awfully defensive for a guy who doesn't care one way or another.