Academy takes historic action to increase diversity- Page 8

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 1/29/16 at 4:53pm

 

Forget it, Namo.  It's Dave19town.

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/29/16 at 8:39pm

FindingNamo said: " 

 

"Being sure that every person in the committee will always discrimitate and always pick their own characteristics, and basically already accusing the new diverse body of voters of racism and discrimination too" 

 

NOBODY said that ever.  Putting in quotes doesn't change the fact that you made it all up although it implies it's coming from somebody else."

 

You seem to be quite sure the current body of voters does it. Yes or no? And you seem to be quite sure the new body of voters will do it. Yes or no? And you say it doesn't matter if everyone does it, as long as the body is diverse. Yes or no?

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/29/16 at 8:43pm

You seem to be quite sure the current body of voters does it.

 

I know how homogenous groups behave.   Because mountains of research has demonstrated it.  And the results have been replicated again and again.  Which is what behavioral science calls "proof."  So, if you're looking for proof, it's in the pudding of what the overwhelmingly male, overwhelming white, overwhelmingly senior academy voters have nominated this year, last year, etc etc.

 

The academy seems to agree.

 

Doesn't even engaging with me and others on the topic of race count as racism in your syllogistic (look it up) reasoning?  I think it does!   You're racist for talking about race!

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/29/16 at 8:51pm

FindingNamo said: "I know how homogenous groups behave".

 

Good for you. Unfortunately for your point here, the choices are made by individuals, not in groups, so not affected by other voters of the body.

 

"You're racist for talking about race!"

 

Nope, you're racist if you blame race for everything.

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/29/16 at 9:10pm

There is no definition of racist that includes that.  Anywhere.  Ever.

 

You must have learned groups on Sesame Street, no?  "One of these things is not like the others.... Three of these things are just like the others...?"   Groups are not necessarily made up of individuals who know each other.  There are demographic groups.  And if one demographic dominates a voting bloc, the results will (as has been proven again and again), reflect the demographic that dominates the voting bloc.  Clear now, finally?  Terrific!

 

#TweetLikeAWhiteDave

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 6:59am

Like I said, nothing wrong with a diverse voting body, but that is by no means the solution here, and by no means is there any reason to attack the Oscar system if your favourite minority is not always in it.

 

There are hundreds of reasons why people are not nominated.

 

Updated On: 1/30/16 at 06:59 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 10:13am

"The solution?"  My goodness.  You think so simplistically it's a marvel.  You have AN answer for racism -- "There's no such thing and you're racist for thinking there is" -- and you think THE solution has been proposed  when all that's happening is a step is being taken.

 

But at least we're finally done with it.  Your obdurate "Nuh uh, NO..." has dumped you in the inevitable logical cut-de-sac with nowhere else to go.

Updated On: 1/30/16 at 10:13 AM

[tazber]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 11:23am

That hasn't stopped him for 8 pages.

Updated On: 1/30/16 at 11:23 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 11:50am

Nope, we've reached his conclusion.  "[N]othing wrong with a diverse voting body."  He lived, he learned.  Isn't it ironic?

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 2:16pm

FindingNamo said: "There's no such thing and you're racist for thinking there is"

 

Exactly. No black people in the nominees this year is not racism. 

 

It will probably happen many more times, also with other voting bodies.

 

No matter how much you hope the new body will judge on race.

 

Updated On: 1/30/16 at 02:16 PM

[SNAFU]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 2:16pm

My feeling on this is that it goes deeper then the Academy. Hollywood it's self really doesn't find the money to produce that many movies that concern People of Color. When they do, it is always a Slave drama, which they tout as groundbreaking. They are trying to do that now with Birth of a Nation. Where are the substantial present day Black, Puerto Rican, Asian, Native American films?

[hork]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 4:41pm

SNAFU said: "My feeling on this is that it goes deeper then the Academy. Hollywood it's self really doesn't find the money to produce that many movies that concern People of Color. When they do, it is always a Slave drama, which they tout as groundbreaking. They are trying to do that now with Birth of a Nation. Where are the substantial present day Black, Puerto Rican, Asian, Native American films?

 

I can only think of one slave drama. But I can think of a lot of recent films concerning African-Americans that have nothing to do with slavery. Puerto Rican, Asian-American, and Native American, not so much.

[javero]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 7:39pm

As a black in the US, I feel somewhat conflicted about this issue where feature film writer-directors are concerned.  Without hesitation, I applaud the likes of Antoine Fuqua, Ava DuVernay, John Singleton, Robert Townsend, F. Gary Gray, Spike Lee, Reginald Hudlin, Lee Daniels, Tyler Perry, and other black directors who've figured out how to get movies financed, shot, and a distributed by the Hollywood machine, that at least break even financially.

 

However, what I often find grating is how predictable their fare tends to be.  Collectively, they've not been terribly groundbreaking in terms of subject matter, cinematography, location shooting, editing, etc.  This applies to the current Holy Trinity as well, namely Spike Lee, Lee Daniels, and Tyler Perry.  Their work tends to remain faithful to the naturalistic tradition with characters steeped in angst due to either excessive moralizing or the political leanings or the utter despair of other characters on screen (or the directors themselves).  I'm left pondering whether either is capable of producing anything remotely close to INTERSTELLAR or BIRDMAN.  On second thought, BIRDMAN was mindless bull**** but at least it didn't hit me over the head with with a political manifesto or bible.

 

More to the point...Spike's grown on me but arguably he's been making the same 2 movies for 30 years now.  Lee Daniels is hit-or-miss on several levels including casting Queen Oprah where she's clearly miscast.  And Tyler...bless his heart.  Most of his film work is barely a notch above a C.O.G.I.C production of the Resurrection on Easter Sunday starring Shaqwaan, LaTrelle, and Aunt Beulah, but I ain't hatin'.  Tyler's hired a ton of marginalized folk for work in front of and behind the cameras.  While I'm not a fan of his oeuvre, I respect his hustle. 

 

What I'm getting at is that whenever I take a trip to the cineplex, I'm seeking an experience that transcends my reaction to watching evening news from my sofa (Spike) or downloading a video documentary that explores how the beef between Lil Kim & Nicki Minaj is due to repressed lesbian attraction (Lee) or a televangelist casting out demons from some wayward soul who's only transgression is that she's horny and wants to get laid (Tyler).

 

That's all for now, folks.

Updated On: 1/30/16 at 07:39 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 7:48pm

I giggled thru your post when weeping would have been more appropriate. 

 

I think Chi-Raq was more ambitious than Spike has been in awhile. 

 

And what about McQueen?

 

We need a black mainstream for s black indie to push back against  

 

Updated On: 1/30/16 at 07:48 PM

[javero]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 7:56pm

I omitted McQueen only because he's a Brit.  But, how I'd like to see a homegrown version of him.  His work's arguably not for everyone but at least he's intellectually curious and willing to take risks.

 

ETA: I still haven't seen Spike Lee's latest joint but will real soon.  Also haven't seen STRAIGHT OUTTA COMPTON mainly b/c I've never been a fan of west coast rap.  I'll try to set my personal prejudices aside and download it later.

Updated On: 1/30/16 at 07:56 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 7:59pm

It's worth it in my humble caucasoid Radiohead-loving opinion!

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 9:05pm

I think my favorite part of this whole things is that he claims the awards are always given to the best and there is no bias, until he doesn't agree with the winner (Jennifer Hudson) and then it's some sort of racial conspiracy plot to make sure the non-white actress who wasn't actually the best won.

 

I have to admit that I kind of suspected he would eventually reveal something like that, but I'm still a bit shocked that he actually wrote it.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 1/30/16 at 9:09pm

I also find it fascinating that he agrees that racism does exist, but he's utterly confident that it has no bearing whatsoever on the Academy Awards.

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/31/16 at 8:07am

AEA AGMA SM said: "I think my favorite part of this whole things is that he claims the awards are always given to the best and there is no bias, until he doesn't agree with the winner (Jennifer Hudson) and then it's some sort of racial conspiracy plot to make sure the non-white actress who wasn't actually the best won.

I have to admit that I kind of suspected he would eventually reveal something like that, but I'm still a bit shocked that he actually wrote it.

 

"

 

Now you are confusing cause and result. 

 

Updated On: 1/31/16 at 08:07 AM

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/31/16 at 8:16am

What an embarrassing speech of Viola Davis at the SAGAwards.

"I can play any character in Chechov, Shakespeare, in Miller, etc, no matter what is going on in the business, I will find a way to practice my art. All the people of color I know don't put limitations on themselves. Regardless what is going on in Hollywood, they will find a way.".

 

NO, poor girl. You can not play any character in Chechov, Shakespeare, Miller, and any other title, because you are NOT male, you are NOT 20, you are NOT 70, you are NOT white, you are NOT every height, you are NOT every type, and all those things matter in casting and story lines.

 

Delusional lady.

 

Now, it seems mandatory these days, that a certain percentage of the arbitrary characteristic of being black is mandatory in EVERY project or movie there is. 

 

Gosh, I wish that it was mandatory for a gay actor in every film too. Or a 70+ actor in every project too. Or a fat actor in every project too. Because those characteristis cover 12% of the population too.

 

Completely losing the point of casting.

 

Now, for the people who think there is cleary a minimum limit of the amount of black people in anything, because they start hyperventilating if anything happens to not have a black person in it. Is there also a maximum limit in your mind? 

 

Because the racist mandatory black rule is actually creating situations where more than 50% of the black people who audition for a certain project is hired for the job, (like we discussed earlier in this thread, because the percentage is lower, versus high opportunities) which has never happened with any other characteristic/race. 

Updated On: 1/31/16 at 08:16 AM

[javero]

Posted: 1/31/16 at 8:32am

There has been an all-female staging of the Tony Award-winning musical 1776 and by most appearances HAMILTON has been a runaway success.  I applaud Viola for pivoting to what's within the realm of possibility.  The problem with conventional wisdom is that it sometimes springs from fountains that weren't designed to nourish everyone..

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/31/16 at 9:01am

It is the same thing as wanting a very short Danny Zuko in Grease. There will be plenty of groups that fight for the acceptance of short people and protesting that they need more diversity in that role, because it is considered as an opportunity to play, and usually one to look up to, as he is supposed to be popular and attractive. But the thing is, that casting directors don't have to explain anything to anyone, they can just cast what they think the biggest part of the world finds attractive. And that happens to be tall rather than short for this role. It is not written in stone, just what they feel. And yes, short guys may feel discriminated, but instead of using that as some kind of "pity sword" to fight with, they can also just accept that it is part of them, keep quiet, work hard and show what you can do, and make the gap disappear. Any protest works in the opposite direction and actually creates a bigger gap and makes people notice the differences even more.

 

Protesting that the Oscars must have short people in their voting body, so they hopefully vote for short actors, so they win an Oscar as well, so you feel good too, is by no means the solution. If you are short, very talented and attractive and the right type for Danny Zuko, go audition, if you are better than anyone else they will hire you, and then, and only then you will make a point.

 

Yes, you may have to fight harder, but don't expect them to invite a bunch of short people for the role, just for the sake of diversity please.

Updated On: 1/31/16 at 09:01 AM

[javero]

Posted: 1/31/16 at 10:09am

"But the thing is, that casting directors don't have to explain anything to anyone, they can just cast what they think the biggest part of the world finds attractive."

 

Let's change lanes for a moment to a competitive sport, women's tennis, because I's like to make a point by way of analogy.  US-born Serena Williams has won 21 major titles in singles...Russian-born Maria Sharapova 5.  Serena has won more prize money than any female athlete in history for on court performance.  Maria, on the other hand, is the highest paid female athlete for product placement off the court in the form of endorsements.  The tennis establishment and advertisers were slow to warm to either of the Williams sisters for a number of reasons.  That same august body and the domestic advertising cabal beat a path to Sharapova's door with endorsement deals the moment she won a single major title.  The fact that her first major title came by defeating Serena was even more salivating for some onlookers.

 

I'm a very proud citizen of the US.  But, I'm quite comfortable suggesting that the nation still has a genetic predisposition toward the exaltation of all things historically white as the gold standard.  After members of marginalized groups or the nation's newest arrivals progress on their own steam, some members of the old guard are quick to either call for additional barriers to entry or to lament the inability to lord it over the previous underclass.  It's Serena's truth, as as well as Viola's and mine alike.  Every upwardly mobile black person that I know of, as well as myself, has met with opposition from numerous adversaries who've attempted to remind us our places as we upset the natural order of things including aesthetics. For the most part, bww has provided safe haven.

 

There's a reason our Founding Fathers roundly rejected a peerage system.   We yanks of all stripes let any victor enjoy the spoils of success provided the triumph comes from fair play on a level playing field, not from birthright or a firmly entrenched sense of entitlement.

 

Most folks on here know that I'm reluctant as hell to play the race card.  But, you Dave19 have a problem with blacks in spite of your ill-worded call for fairness in the context of acting awards.  I'm also not big on ad hominen attacks but you are neither a critical thinker nor a skilled writer so I've given your vacuous musings all the time that I can spare.  Hopefully you'll dedicate some time to evolve on both counts before blessing us with another installment of your jeremiad.  In parting, less attention to Jennifer Hudson's perceived failings and more to your own, mate.

Updated On: 1/31/16 at 10:09 AM

[Dave19]

Posted: 1/31/16 at 10:20am

I don't think you can compare these things. Tennis is a game about winning or losing. It is a simple game fact, where the winning has nothing to do with opinions of others. The advertisement world is a completely different world where opinions of companies come in, with a certain product, audiences they like to advertise to, image, etc. The financial part also has a lot to do with the kind of competitions, where prizes differ all the time.

 

The thing is, is you feel that the general world has certain views or preferences in taste, that happen to be not everything that you are, that is nothing you need to change by protesting, but by accepting.

 

 

Updated On: 1/31/16 at 10:20 AM

[javero]

Posted: 1/31/16 at 11:31am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Z8LN4NhfM

 

Yes, we yanks have family squabbles from time to time but there's nothing like the indomitable American spirit.  It's that spirit so succinctly captured in our Declaration of Independence that compels us to reject arbitrary social constructs like permanent stations in life, preordained prizes awarded by an oligarchy, and titles of nobility.  We protest, bitch, gripe, harangue, and sue to seek redress for any perceived infringement of our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, of our own volition.  Anybody got a problem with it upon these shores, then get to steppin'.

Updated On: 1/31/16 at 11:31 AM