Ed Koch has died- Page 2

[Addison D.]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 1:41pm

I feel strongly that--as Mayor of NYC at the beginning of the AIDS crisis--Ed Koch dropped the ball. His response was inadequate. He repeatedly refused to listen to or demonstrate any empathy with the truly horrific experiences people were having in HIS city, in the hospitals for which he was, ultimately, responsible. He failed to show leadership, vision or compassion.

But Ed Koch was not--according to anything I have ever read or heard--a Gay Man. He may have been sexually attracted to men. He may have had SEX with other men. But his homosexuality was not integrated into his life in any kind of healthy, functional way. He was not--like any number of Hollywood closet cases--out in the gay bars meeting boys, having gossipy lunches at a big table of laughing, campy queens, etc. etc. etc. (NO-this is not the ONLY way in which one can live as a "gay" man. It is merely an easy short-hand for what I am trying to describe.)

As I said on the Mante Te'o thread, Katie Couric missed the mark by a mile when she asked Te'o if he was "gay". He is obviously NOT gay. That does not mean that he is not sexually attracted to men, nor does it mean that he is not actively engaged in having sex with men.

All of which is to say that while I feel that Koch has a lot to answer for with regard to his Administration's response to the early days of the AIDS crisis, I feel that it is unfair and inappropriate to judge him as somehow MORE culpable because he was a "gay man".

And I seriously question anyone's ability to come to the tidy conclusion that his failures were "due to" his being closeted. Unless there is someone out there with first-hand knowledge of an explicit statement by Koch to support that connection, I would posit that it is far more likely that his motives were complex and likely unknowable even to himself, let alone to us.

Updated On: 2/2/13 at 01:41 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 1:49pm

I'm trying to honor the man in his death.

[Addison D.]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 2:11pm

"I'm trying to honor the man in his death."

And rightly so, Jane. Mayor Koch's accomplishments are many and he did a lot of good for NYC. Those of us who love this city owe him our thanks on a wide variety of issues.

The nightmare that was the early days of the AIDS crisis, however, was life-changing and un-forgettable. In the minds of many people who were there, Ed Koch is responsible for lives lost and a great deal of suffering.

For many people, the niceties of speaking no ill of the dead cannot--and should not--be observed when the transgressions of the departed are too great.

Updated On: 2/2/13 at 02:11 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 2:38pm

"In the minds of many people who were there,"

I was there, right smack in the middle of it. I remember a bunch of us sitting on a boardwalk in the Pines, talking about it nonstop. The first of my 20 plus close friends who died of AIDS, passed in '82. And it went on from there. My best friend died of a long drawn out horrendous death. He was holding out waiting for someone of his family in Germany to come. they never did.

Anyway, I do remember all that. I was just honoring the man for all the good he did for the city. Perhaps we should have a thread about the bad?

[SNAFU]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 2:46pm

Addison you have pretty much summed up my opinion on the matter perfectly. With someone who had Koch's power of office, the good and the bad must be remembered!

He did an incredible job bringing the city back from the brink of financial ruin. He also began the trend to clean up the city. As a die hard New Yorker (not a Native but adopted) I owe him a great deal of thanks. I spent way too much time sitting in hospital rooms, trying to work through the bureaucracies to get friends and loved ones the care they needed and attending funerals though as well. For that I will never forgive him. Nor will i forgive Ronald Reagan. Just a few words from those in power at the time could have changed so much in how my friends and loved ones were treated as the passed from this world.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 2:56pm

"I spent way too much time sitting in hospital rooms, trying to work through the bureaucracies to get friends and loved ones the care they needed and attending funerals though as well."

Me too. But I respectfully am quitting the thread

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 3:17pm

But Ed Koch was not--according to anything I have ever read or heard--a Gay Man. He may have been sexually attracted to men. He may have had SEX with other men. But his homosexuality was not integrated into his life in any kind of healthy, functional way.

Read the articles and biographies and watch Kirby Dick's extraordinary documentary "Outrage."

Koch had a longtime lover named Richard Nathan with whom he broke up shortly before he became mayor. Richard Nathan died of AIDS, alone.

I don't think it's conjecture to say that Koch's great tragedy in his personal and political life was his closet.

I should think it's patently obvious.

And tragic, in the Greek sense of the word.

And, Jane, we honor the greatness in great people by speaking to truth, not by hagiography.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 4:03pm

So true.
I wish I could express the frustration at the the way people have reacted to me because I simply will NOT worship the man - in life, or after his passing. I get VERY angry when you raise the AIDS issue and the response is "well, that's just one thing" or "he did so much good and that's just blemish." Lives are not blemishes. And these were THOUSANDS of lives. Clean up the city or not, I don't like the man... never have.. and I will not pretend that he was someone else and I will not whitewash his misdeeds to canonize him. Honor the dead? What about honoring the thousands of dead.. and how is it honoring a person to idealize them and blur the lines of fact and fiction to not remember who they were?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 7:42pm

Worth reading, for anyone who "question anyone's ability to come to the tidy conclusion that his failures were 'due to' his being closeted."
The Nation: Ed Koch and the Cost of the Closet

[Kad]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 8:07pm

As someone too young to have really lived through the AIDS crisis, Koch seems like he was a good man. Not a strong man. But a good man. The compromise he made in his heart is something he probably had to try to reconcile the rest of his life. The truth of the matter is locked in there, too; it now will be buried with him.

Canonizing our former leaders is never something that should be done, whether it be George Washington or Ed Koch. By the power of their office and characters, the good they performed was magnified. But they were men, and they made mistakes- ones at time grievous- and those were likewise amplified by the positions they held. Hesitation and silence on their part sends shockwaves through history.

Koch should be remembered for what he did and didn't do, forever in purgatory- neither sent to heaven or hell.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 2/2/13 at 10:01pm

Great article, PJ.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/4/13 at 11:04am

Michelangelo Signorile in today's Huffington Post:

"At this very moment, there are closeted gay politicians in Washington and across the country voting against gay rights in part to cover for themselves, driven by personal ambition. They are dangerous individuals, wielding power while harboring a secret they're pathologically afraid will out itself, abusing and terrorizing those close to them as well as many others. Ed Koch is a possible example of the extremes to which they will go."











SUESTORM--READ THIS: Michelangelo Signorile: Ed Koch and the Corruption of the Gay Closet

Updated On: 2/4/13 at 11:04 AM

[suestorm]

Posted: 2/4/13 at 4:26pm

Im totally serious when i ask, do we know for a fact that he was gay? to my knowledge he never did.

he once said, if you agree with me on 7 out of 10 issues, vote for me. if you agree with me on 10 of 10 issues you should get your head examined! ha awesome.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/4/13 at 4:50pm

Sue: what we know and what we don't know is all covered in the Michelangelo Signorile article in the post just above yours, as well as in this article by Andy Humm:

http://gaycitynews.com/ed-koch-12-years-as-mayor-a-lifetime-in-the-closet/

[suestorm]

Posted: 2/4/13 at 4:58pm

THANKS JOEY, thats very interesting, i think i understand peoples feelings and emotions better now,

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 2/4/13 at 5:14pm

A lot of this is news to me because I was still very young when the AIDS crisis hit. I was 12 and still struggling with my own sexual identity...when AIDS hit I got scared, so much so that I vowed I would never act on those feeling because I would die if I did.

I never knew that Koch was gay or that he even had a male lover until very recently and I respect the opinions of those who were old enough to remember and experienced it all. It's very sobering to say the least.

[suestorm]

Posted: 2/4/13 at 5:18pm

mustve been a scary time. not an excuse but George Washington and thomas jefferson had slaves, sometimes the times define the man rather then the other way around

Updated On: 2/4/13 at 05:18 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/5/13 at 12:12am

Lillian Hellman defined the McCarthy Era as a Scoundrel Time, in which everyone behaved badly: the unprincipled, who betrayed their old friends for gain; and the principled, who did not have much opportunity to act in principled ways and ended up compromising, sometimes with good intentions, often with shameful results.

But in a Scoundrel Time, not one's behavior is above reproach.

(Except Lillian Hellman's, of course.)