Gay "holocaust"?

[bta212]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 4:51pm

This is worth reading.
Opinion column from the Salt Lake Tribune

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 4:58pm

Wow! That was right on the money. But it really freaks me out that this article appeared in the paper in Salt Lake City, Utah?!

Anyone else find that odd?

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:00pm

That last sentence is particular chilling.
And what a wonderfully written piece.

[SallyBrown]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:02pm

oh WOW

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:02pm

Spectacular article.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:08pm

Right on the money!

[oxdreaminxo]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:11pm

Very well written, and very good points. *cringes* We did a major unit on the Holocaust last year and it was awful...Godforbid it ever happens again. We're all equal- right? People can be so empty-headed and closed-minded at times, sheesh.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 5:25pm

It could never happen here.

Unliess it already is.

[bta212]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:04pm

How many times have I read factual or fictional accounts of life in Germany in the years leading up to the Holocaust and wondered at the apathy and cowardice of the Jews and their neighbors? I know for sure that if I were ever in a similar situation I would speak out, stand up, take action.

Well.....

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:13pm

Interesting article. But this is one statement that I had issues with:

"He wanted to know if anybody else sees a similarity between the beginning of the Holocaust - the nibbling away of rights and personhood that ultimately led to the attempted extermination of a people - and what is happening to gay people in American right now."

Personally, I think any comparison to the Holocaust is just wrong. There's a massive difference between a government taking away rights a minority group already had, and a government currently not progressing rights for a minority group. The Holocaust caught everyone off-guard because the Jewish (and other victims) thought they had rights and didn't realize the government had taken them away until it was too late. Gay people have never had these rights, always faced discrimination, have never been allowed to marry, etc. While it's wrong that they don't have the same rights as everyone else, it's always been that way.

It's kind of like homosexuals, like the racial/ethnic minorities mentioned in the article, are in a ditch trying to climb out. Jewish people in the Holocaust were up on ground level and tossed into the ditch.

The discrimation faced by gay people in this country has much more in common with the racial discrimation of the past. But don't start with the Holocaust comparisons until you're forced to wear pink triangles.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:23pm

'The discrimation faced by gay people in this country has much more in common with the racial discrimation of the past. But don't start with the Holocaust comparisons until you're forced to wear pink triangles.'

You do realize that the US had what many consider a two hundred year holocaust known as the institution of slavery, right?

And I'm sorry, but that last sentence is offensive. So...we should wait till we're in the camps before making any sort of comparison?

The entire point of the article (which, I think, you somehow missed) was that no, this isn't the Holocaust, but where do we end when we begin restricting people's freedoms? As long as the desire is there, then we have no reason to believe everything will be a-ok.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:29pm

Orange--did you even read the column? Or did you just react defensively?

This is an article on the Alabama law referenced in the column. It does EXACTLY what you are talking about.

===

The Birmingham News
Gay book ban goal of state lawmaker
Wednesday, December 01, 2004
KIM CHANDLER
News staff writer

MONTGOMERY - An Alabama lawmaker who sought to ban gay marriages now wants to ban novels with gay characters from public libraries, including university libraries.

A bill by Rep. Gerald Allen, R-Cottondale, would prohibit the use of public funds for "the purchase of textbooks or library materials that recognize or promote homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle." Allen said he filed the bill to protect children from the "homosexual agenda."

"Our culture, how we know it today, is under attack from every angle," Allen said in a press conference Tuesday.

Allen said that if his bill passes, novels with gay protagonists and college textbooks that suggest homosexuality is natural would have to be removed from library shelves and destroyed.

"I guess we dig a big hole and dump them in and bury them," he said.

A spokesman for the Montgomery-based Southern Poverty Law Center called the bill censorship.

"It sounds like Nazi book burning to me," said SPLC spokesman Mark Potok.

Allen pre-filed his bill in advance of the 2005 legislative session, which begins Feb. 1.

If the bill became law, public school textbooks could not present homosexuality as a genetic trait and public libraries couldn't offer books with gay or bisexual characters.

When asked about Tennessee Williams' southern classic "Cat On A Hot Tin Roof," Allen said the play probably couldn't be performed by university theater groups.

Allen said no state funds should be used to pay for materials that foster homosexuality. He said that would include nonfiction books that suggest homosexuality is acceptable and fiction novels with gay characters. While that would ban books like "Heather has Two Mommies," it could also include classic and popular novels with gay characters such as "The Color Purple," "The Picture of Dorian Gray" and "Brideshead Revisted."

The bill also would ban materials that recognize or promote a lifestyle or actions prohibited by the sodomy and sexual misconduct laws of Alabama. Allen said that meant books with heterosexual couples committing those acts likely would be banned, too.

His bill also would prohibit a teacher from handing out materials or bringing in a classroom speaker who suggested homosexuality was OK, he said.

Allen has sponsored legislation to make a gay marriage ban part of the Alabama Constitution, but it was not approved by the Legislature.

Ken Baker, a board member of Equality Alabama, a gay rights organization, said Allen was "attempting to become the George Wallace of homosexuality."

Aside from the moral debates, the bill could be problematic for library collections, said Jaunita Owes, director of the Montgomery City-County Library, which is a few blocks from the Alabama Capitol.

"Half the books in the library could end up being banned. It's all based on how one interprets the material," Owes said.

E-mail: [e-mail]

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:39pm

oh please, what's the fuss over a few pink triangles?

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:42pm

go back to the fat one, Neocon Nancy!

Updated On: 5/4/05 at 06:42 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:49pm

for your information, i'm going by fascist frank today, chicken little.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:52pm

fascist frances more like

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 6:53pm

you trying to make an implication there, mama's little helper?

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 7:01pm

I think he's saying you don't have a peenee.

You have a woowoo.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 7:03pm

i prefer the term hoo hah, m'self. hunh, hen i wonder what this extra apendage is? the one that gets all puffy when helena bonham carter is onscreen.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 7:20pm

"You do realize that the US had what many consider a two hundred year holocaust known as the institution of slavery, right?

And I'm sorry, but that last sentence is offensive. So...we should wait till we're in the camps before making any sort of comparison? "

The racial discrimation comparison was about their civil rights movements. The last sentence was in reference to the literal definition of holocaust: a massive slaughter, or genocide. Based on that, I just don't think that it's appropriate to use the term "holocaust" at this point, which is why I mentioned pink triangles. I'm sorry to offend you.

PalJoey, I did read the whole article. I had also previously read the article you posted. Which is why I reacted to the whole article the way I did: It's discrimination, but not the threat of a holocaust. Banning books (burning them, burying them, whatever) has happened in the past, but it hasn't always led to a Nazi-like-regime taking over and sending the targeted group off to gas chambers.

In fact, in many cases, it has led to a reaction from the mainstream, who are against banning literature and brings more attention to the discrimination at large. My dad is incredibly conservative (he listens to Rush Limbaugh during his lunch break every day) but he's also a librarian and was horrified at the thought of banning literature. While he may not be the most tolerant of people, that lawmaker's proposal was enough to bring him further away from the extreme discrimination, and there are many other people that will react like he did.

Updated On: 5/4/05 at 07:20 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 7:29pm

Tell your father thank you for me, for his intelligent response to book burning.

And please tell him that my partner of 12 years cannot be buried with me. Despite our legally binding last will and testament, despite our domestic partnership agreement, my partner's dead body will belong to his mother and sisters, who hate him and will take his body away out of spite.

The only legal document that would enable us to be buried together is a marriage certificate. Ask your father why he will not allow my lifetime partner and I to be buried together.

Wouldn't he want to be buried with HIS lifetime partner? Why is his partnership more valid than mine?

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 7:35pm

'The last sentence was in reference to the literal definition of holocaust'

It's only in reference to the definition if you use a lower-case 'h'. You used a capital 'H', so one would assume you were referring to the period of time between 1939 and 1945.

Ya know, in the end, I don't have much of a problem with the f*cking wackos who scream how we're going to hell and we're the devil's tool. I can see them. I know what they look like. And I can shout right back. What truly turns my stomach are the people who say, 'It's not that bad...I mean...sure discrimination is bad...but...'

Apologists. The WORST kind of person to be.

[JbaraFan1]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 7:58pm

Wow.

After reading that, I was reminded by a local church's sign that tomorrow (5/5) is the National Day of Prayer.

My prayer is that this country will become a place where each individual is treated with all the dignity and given all the respect that she or he deserves.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 5/4/05 at 9:55pm

"...that WHOSOEVER believith in Him..."

Whosoever pretty much covers everyone who believes.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/5/05 at 2:31am

And the point of the article is that there ARE rights being taken away from gays and lesbians. Texas is just one state trying to do so in the issues of adoption and foster parenting.

And, let's please remember that the Holocaust didn't just happen to Jews--it hit gays and people of color as well. Rent PARAGRAPH 175 for more info on Nazi Germany's taking away the rights of gays--and then putting them in camps.

Right now the gay civil rights movement is most similar to the Civil Rights movement. But, I have to agree with the article's changing focus to Nazi mentalities when states start taking away rights. And, when states try to strengthen laws against us.

And the big question is--how many people WOULD have us killed? Because SOMEBODY is going around writing "death to fags" and "AIDS kills fags good".