Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#1Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/23/10 at 12:51pm
One of the best playwrights ever on Broadway!
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#2Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/23/10 at 1:38pm
But Edward de Vere was born April 12 (dying June 6).
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#2Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/23/10 at 2:00pmBut Shakespeare, who was the Neil Simon (who was the Neil Simon of his day) of his day, had the poetic impulse to die on the anniversary of his birth.
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#3Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/23/10 at 2:04pm
No, he died June 6 
(You're 11 days late on his real bday.)
Updated On: 4/23/10 at 02:04 PM
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#4Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/23/10 at 2:22pmI saw Amy Freed's The Beard of Avon. I left unconvinced.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#5Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/23/10 at 2:24pmMe too. But entertained, nonetheless.
Cheyenne Jackson tickled me. AFTER ordering SoMMS a drink but NOT tickling him, and hanging out with Girly in his dressing room (where he DIDN'T tickle her) but BEFORE we got married. To others. And then he tweeted Boobs. He also tweeted he's good friends with some chick on "The Voice" who just happens to be good friends with Tink's ex. And I'm still married. Oh, and this just in: "Pettiness, spite, malice ....Such ugly emotions... So sad." - After Eight, talking about MEEEEEEEE!!! I'm so honored! :-)
#6Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/23/10 at 4:51pmIt's worth remembering that Shakespere was the first celeb to bring out a range of cosmetics. Why only last week I got an Avon catalog (did I spell that right?) through my door.
#7Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/23/10 at 5:20pm
Oh, I never saw that one. It's a pretty fascinating subject.
It's ok. We don't celebrate Jesus' real bday either.
#8Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/23/10 at 11:25pm
It's totally fascinating. And the traditionalist in me wants to defend the Stratford Shakespeare against all comers. But the realist in me thinks the Oxford champion makes more sense. (Assuming those are the two still in play.)
Either way, it's a riveting argument.
Updated On: 4/24/10 at 11:25 PM
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#9Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 12:07amTeam Will!
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#10Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 2:13am
I just find it difficult to believe that the man from Stratford had access to the knowledge and experience demonstrated in those plays. He wouldn't have had the money or the power to access the visas to travel to the lands he knew so much about. And that's just the starting point in why it's most likely that "William Shakespeare" is a pseudonym.
Team Eddie!
#11Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 10:05am
People didn't need to travel or see movies to imagine things. In Shakespeare's day, all they needed to do was read and they imagined great things.
I believe with all my heart that the "small Latine and lesse Greeke" he had (in Ben Jonson's words) was enough to spur his genius.
Just like the small amount of American culture Irvin Berlin had as a young Jewish immigrant was enough to spur his imagination to create words and music that were quintessentially American or Christian, like "Alexander's Ragtime Band," "God Bless America" and "White Christmas."
Genius cannot be explained by logic. Logic did not produce Stephen Sondheim.
That makes me happy.
#12Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 10:25amRomeo & Juliet was totally the GLEE of it's time.
#13Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 3:52pm
PJ, I don't disagree with what you are saying, but whoever wrote those plays had extensive firsthand knowledge, not just imagination. That and other great curiosities is what makes the subject so fascinating.
If a man from Stratford really wrote those plays, then he's even more terrificly brilliant than we had imagined. Is that possible? I have to offer that it is. But it's not what I lean toward. And, the idea that a man had to hide his identity or else face treason is a thrilling story in itself.
Updated On: 4/24/10 at 03:52 PM
#14Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 5:21pm
I remain unconvinced by the alternates to Will as well, mostly because the entire argument begins from a place of cultural superiority.
Those who began the "Who is the real Shakespeare?" and offered up Bacon as the alternate just could not allow that a non-noble would be able to produce the plays. While it is true that there is a great deal of knowledge that was not easy to access in the plays neither are they so highly intellectual that it seems necessary they were written by a true classicist.
It seems better for the lyrical romantic view of art, and while difficult certainly within the realm of possibility, that Will was Will. In the end the discussion is what I think makes it compelling. In fact I just had a great conversation last week with some (very smart) high school students who were really interested in the question, and because of it really drawn farther into the plays. I think that is a win/win.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#15Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 5:42pm
I don't intend to put forth intellectual superiority--more practical reality in a sincere manner. Some of the suggestions are fun, especially that Queen Elizabeth was the playwright. But, Edward is the most likely choice for reasons even beyond the intellectual/travel question.
I don't think it matters who is right when it comes to watching/reading his plays. I can see how certain companies might feel that certain elements hold different meanings based on which person's biography you observe. But in any event, the brilliance is on the page for one to work with.
What is even more fascinating is that one of the two recently unearthed Shakespeare plays AND one of Edward de Vere's plays (that he wrote under his name) complete The War of the Roses canon.
#16Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 5:48pm
I didn't think you were making that argument Jerby, just that that was a very large part of the original argument.
I have never thought it mattered, and personally see lots of the evidence you do that makes it look like Edward is the answer.
In the end though I like the idea of Shakespeare better, in the same way that I like the idea of Homer. So it is all good.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#17Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 10:15pm
"whoever wrote those plays had extensive firsthand knowledge, not just imagination..."
I really don't understand how you can decide that he needed "extensive firsthand knowledge" to write what he wrote. So many of the plays were based on previously existing stories told and adapted through retelling, the way myths and legends always are.
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#18Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 10:35pm
The details, darling--not the plot lines.
Though, how many languages did the Stratford Shakespeare speak? Some of his sources were not in English.
ETA: Latin and French most likely and possibly some Italian or he had a friend who could read Italian.
Updated On: 4/24/10 at 10:35 PM
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#19Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/24/10 at 11:28pmYou're just dealing in double falsehoods.
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FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#21Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/25/10 at 1:34pmSorry, too obscure an in-joke I guess.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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#22Happy birth- and death-day William Shakespeare
Posted: 4/25/10 at 1:44pm
I thought you meant something by it. I do get the allusion. lol
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