Mamas and the Papas- Page 3

[Glebb]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:26pm

"One brick short of a load."
LOL!
I could swear it was out of Carol Burnett's mouth I first heard that phrase.

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:31pm

Doesn't negate their contributions to one of the greatest pop groups ever but still in all they're both a brick short of a load.

Indeed. Some might even argue it's because they were both (hell, all four of them) a brick short of a load that their contribution to music was so great.

And it's true, we'll never really get the "true" story of what happened. So many stories about them are apocryphal, so much so that I remember Michelle making a comment once about how some of this untrue stories were repeated so often that even they began to believe them.

The tale of Cass and the lead pipe is the first that comes to mind ...

[Glebb]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:34pm

Sorry Kringas, we all know it was Colonel Mustard in the study with the lead pipe.

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:37pm

Well, true or not, Cass Elliot's legacy also involves a lead pipe. As legend has it, during their time in the Virgin Islands (which is semi-chronicled in the amazing "Creeque Alley"), John wouldn't let Cass into the group because she couldn't hit some of the high notes he needed for the harmonies. Cass worked down there while group performed and one day she was somehow struck about the head with a lead pipe. When she came to, she was miraculously able to hit the notes needed and she joined the group.

I've also heard the story take place in California, but the end is the same. She somehow got hit with a pipe and that somehow improved her range.

In reality, it's most likely that John was uneasy having Cass in the group because of her look.

[Glebb]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:40pm

Sounds like Angel Dust to me.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:40pm

Isn't that how you reverse amnesia on a sitcom? Did Cass have amnesia? Or maybe it was an evil twin.

Kringas, I wasn't aware of the "All The Leaves Are Brown" collection but I've been listening to it on Napster Premium since you mentioned. Three words: Fab U Lous.

Thanks for making me aware of it.

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:43pm

Yes Kringas, they are so many stories that it only adds to the legend of that group.

I do remember reading that Michelle was actually kicked out of the group for a brief period and replaced with a girl who was dating Lou Adler (and in the 60s everyone was dating him) at the time by the name of Jill (don't recall the last name). They even replaced Michelle's face with hers in one of their iconic photos. Needless to say Jill Whatsherface didn't cut the mustard and Michelle was asked back.


Updated On: 9/18/05 at 01:43 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:46pm

Did I ever mention I saw the fake Mamas & The Papas in the '80s. John and Denny, of course, with Spanky filling in for Cass and Mackenzie Philips filling in for Michelle and Scott Mackenzie on guitar.

It was surprisingly not bad. And they did Mackenzie's "San Francisco" and the other Mackenzie's "One Day at a Time" theme song.

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:47pm

You're quite welcome, Darling Namo. I love that collection so much. "Twelve-Thirty," "Safe in My Garden," "Dedicated the One I Love," "My Heart Stood Still." I could go on forever. Their voices together are pure heaven.

I have somewhere an edit of "Once Was A Time I Thought" with a chunk of studio chatter. There's some bickering between John and Michelle (Him: You're late. Her: I was right with you. Him (snidely): Sorry. My mistake). The best moment comes, however, when John (again with a tone in his voice) says, "Michelle can do anything she wants," to which Cass furiously retorts, "No, she can't!"

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:48pm

No it's actually the first time you've mentioned it.
When a group resorts to singing the theme from "One Day at a Time" that's a sign....

[Glebb]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:50pm

Where's the movie?

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:53pm

I have a live cd of Spanky with John and Denny. Mackenzie wasn't with them at the time.

Speaking of Spanky and Our Gang - "Sunday Will Never Be the Same" is another favorite of mine from that era.

Marquise - Yes! Jill Gibson briefly replaced Michelle and her photo was used on some of the album covers of their second album, "The Mamas and the Papas" (not be confused with their fourth album, "The Papas and the Mamas").

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:55pm

Phillips actually sold her movie rights to Lorimar shortly after the auto-bio was published. No movie was ever made. Warner Bros now owns Lorimar but I'm sure that option lapsed.

That group doesn't need a movie. They need a soap opera.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:56pm

They did "Sunday Will Never Be The Same" too! It was fantastic. Mackenzie was like an hour late for the show, came in through the audience, LITERALLY sniffing. This was, I believe, during the period that she was back on "One Day at a Time" and she was allegedly in recovery. They also did a song that she wrote, and I kind of liked it.

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:57pm

Glebb- There's been talk for years of a movie, but I don't know if it'll really happen. I've always thought it would work best as a feature as opposed to a tv movie, for the drug use alone. Every once in a while I hear that something has been green-lit, but it never seems to go anywhere. It's a shame, because their story (whatever version) would make a great film. I believe that the contention between John and Michelle throughout the last years of his life (which, according to her, was a fence that was mended just before his death) was a problem with getting it to the screen.

Edited: Also, because of the rampant drug use (mostly weed and LSD in the 60s, with John's later descent into cocaine) and the fairly lackadaisical attitude they took toward it, it would be a little tough to tell the story properly these days, I'd imagine.

Has anyone ever seen the clip of them on Ed Sullivan, where Michelle is using a banana as a microphone? I swear, in every clip from the era, she's the one who seems most heavily medicated. Sigh. How I love her.

Updated On: 9/18/05 at 01:57 PM

[Glebb]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 1:57pm

Wish HBO would do it.
Sort of like the Peter Sellers bio/pic.

[Plum]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 2:05pm

Their "Dream a Little Dream of Me" has been played 62 times on my computer alone. 'Nuff said.

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 2:05pm

Yeah, HBO wouldn't be a bad idea. You'd almost need that sort of whimsy to tell the story, as their music and story really transcend the mundane. The movie would really need to be some sort of two hour acid trip.

[Glebb]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 2:08pm

Exactly!

I saw her again..

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 2:11pm

Legend has it that the line near the end, "I saw her... I saw her again last night" was a studio flub and they kept it because it sounded good.

I've said it before, but that's a near-perfect pop song. Such a nasty set of lyrics (again, rumored to be written by John as a "punishment" for Michelle's affair with Denny) over that perky little tune.

Updated On: 9/18/05 at 02:11 PM

[Glebb]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 2:13pm

It does sound like a mistake to me. :)

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 2:16pm

In the mythology of The Mamas and the Papas, it's hard to decipher what's true and what's heresay. In the end, it doesn't really matter. The music stands for itself. And what f***ing amazing music it is.

[Glebb]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 2:18pm

I must read the new Margot Fonteyn bio but after that it's a Mamas and Papas bio I'll read.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 2:18pm

It's a perfect It's a perfect mistake if, in fact, it was a mistake. I can't imagine a "correct" version.

[ConvinceMe2]

Posted: 9/18/05 at 2:26pm

Anyone who can call The Carpenters' music, "hideous", has no sense of what can be called music, and I have no respect for their opinion, musically.