Owner Of A Gay Bar Bans Bridal Showers — Page 4

God, I hlaotvee you all.

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I hear more women refer to themselves that way than I do gay men.

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I wasn't disputing what you said PJ. Calm down.

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I'm with you Joey. I abhor all those phrases. A woman can just be my friend, no label needed.

The psychology of all of this is complex. There is a self-hating component to most communities. Sadly, many people fail to see the power of language and the subconscious effects. Calling women "hags" and men "faggot" still sends a message.

I think The Abbey is doing a cool thing-essentially stripping the language of oppression while still welcoming women. They are saying, "we will not consciously honor your freedom while ours are dismissed. We will not validate your experience with language."

It makes me sad that so many gay men have eating disorders. Essentially they've turned societies hate into their own. They often strive to be the best, cleanest, leanest and socially acceptable version of themselves. Women have been dealing with that for years.

Also, I take some issue with people saying Kathy Griffin or Cho do a lot for the gay community. Yes, they are outspoken, but preaching to the choir doesn't really cut it for me. Also, they spew ALOT of HATE to other parties that they don't agree with. Having Cho rant about physically abusing George Bush and cutting off his balls made me get up and leave her show. Hate is hate.

Also, Kathy doesn't cut any breaks to gay groups. She charges full fee for benefits 100k+. So I don't feel her love at all.

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Updated On: 5/30/12 at 12:36 PM

I didn't read the article but i think punching women just cause they ares fat is wrong. And I don't care what any of the rest of you think!

At the same time, we should probably place a moratorium on rendering judgement on who gets to identify as bi or not.

I do agree with PalJoey, though I'm pleased to say it was probably the late 90s the last time I associated with someone who considered themselves (or the female friends they hung with) a "fag hag." And yeah, a handful comments in this thread are deplorable, and it's unfortunate that so many gay guys still seem to be taking their cue on how to view women from datalounge.

"...and it's unfortunate that so many gay guys still seem to be taking their cue on how to view women from datalounge."

Ugh, God, that's so true, PRS, and especially ironic that they're lapping up those behaviors from the same patriarchal, misogynistic codes of conduct responsible for defining the phony notions of masculinity that flatly exclude them... unless, of course, they can sufficiently "pass."

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I think that depends on tone and context clues, Joe.

As for Kathy Griffin and the like, I guess everyone sees what they want to see, but I always remember vividly how Kathy Griffin eschewed all wedding gifts and requested that a donation be made to AmFar instead, which I thought made her the bww buzzword, "a class act." I've never felt like she pandering to the gay community, I thought she felt a kinship with them and (perhaps wrongly, but that's a debate for another time as this whole thread as really strayed from what it was originally about) considered herself part of the gang. And seriously, Bettyboy, I feel like all she talks about now is the Real Housewives anyway, so I would think you'd be on board with that.

I think for sheer solipsistic pandering one needs to look no further than Lady Gaga, but I know she's golden to a huge swath of people, and I think once I hit my 30s I stopped feeling like I needed to be in synch with huge chunks (or really any chunk) of the gay community at large.

I need to know! UI had a couple Martinis too many at Bear Pride this weekend and ended up cartwheeling up Halsted in my briefs and a friend called me today and told me I was a "Hot Mess" and he & his friends couldn't stop talking about me. That HAS to be good right?

I would like to compose a well-considered response to this, TD, but I don't have time at the moment. I did want to acknowledge your post, though, and say that, in my view, relatively speaking, as a collective minority, yes, I do believe we are very, very much in our infancy, socially. Two decades ago, gays had just barely acquired a political voice. Four decades ago, those brave enough to be out were outliers. Six decades ago, the notion that the odd homosexual was part of a larger social group didn't even exist in the popular American consciousness.

There has been a lot of change in the past several decades, but the world is very old, and change, even in America, is a hefty process.

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Exactly. And, frankly, I'm curious to see if we'll make it through our teens.

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"And Gays have ALWAYS been clique orientate. The Leather Guys would never be seen hanging out with the Drag Queens, who were always lumped with the porn stars. "

I think, or maybe just like to think, that this is getting better, and it's at least slightly less of an issue now (as is having seperate places for gays and lesbians to go). I get that people want a place to be comfortable and an image to fit into, but to misquote Madonna it seems pretty reductive in the greater picture, and increasingly more so.