Teen Suicide, how common is it?- Page 2

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 12:46am

"She argued that ultimately, suicide is inevitable in many people."

I'm with you, Anna. Hope it's not true. Would love to hear her argument(s) in full detail.

[AnnaK<3LMIP]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 1:07am

Well sure, her essay was posted on the school's website along with the others'...I got her permission btw to share with you some of her points, she was on AIM.

She explained that she views suicide (as do many others) as the most drastic thing a person can do to themselves. She said that teenagers are so stressed out during high school years because of friends and school, and it's obvious that people deal with this stress in different ways. But some people, although it wasn't obvious at first, were never ready to deal with the stress. They were never ready to move on and they were never prepared..they never really learned how to get over the little things. For example, they never learned how to put aside the stress and pressure and realize that not getting into Yale wasn't the end of the world. As teenagers, we're all at different stages in our life. Some of us know exactly who we want to become, and others have no clue as to who we are and who we want to become. Also depending on where you live and how you are raised, priorities are not really considered in a logical way. Because many of us are too young-minded to realize that not getting the lead this one time isn't a big deal. There's a whole world out there. But for us, it's like we're caught in high school. Sure, 4 years we'll all graduate. But for now we're stuck and we have to deal with it as best we can.
She didn't mean to sound pessimistic about everything and everyone, but she was talking about how everyone, not just teenagers, have their breaking point. Again, it's how you deal with it. Some people, even in their adult years as prosperous people, never adapted properly to the speed at which their life was going, or not going. Because of this, they see no other way than to kill themselves.
ALSO she had another point that a lot of teenagers, because again, of this inability to DEAL with their problems, being to feel isolated, trapped, and lonely, even if they have all the friends in the world and wonderful families. Suddenly it's like nobody else understands them, even though loads of people probably do. Suddenly it's like it wouldn't even matter if they were gone, because they woke up everyday with the sole purpose of making it to Yale, or because she would see her boyfriend at school.
Plus, she was saying how if teenagers grow up in environments that have more and more pressure to do well in school, to impress the people around you, to deal with things that they can't, if they don't commit suicide in high school, one day that emptiness they felt in high school may just resurface.

Basically, she wrapped up by saying that every single person has one (or more..) thing(s) about them that can ruin them if they let it. That is the difference between people (teens, mostly) who kill themselves compared to those who do not. The teens who do not have some sort of mental capability that they were raised with or learned where they can deal with the situation without resorting to that one last act.

I mean, what she's saying is super controversial, and a lot of things I agree with her on, but I kinda feel as though it's generalizing too much. Granted, she has had 5 close family members or friends who have killed themselves. She has some for of feel for it.

[AnnaK<3LMIP]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 1:10am

I forgot to add, she mentioned that the way/place the teenager is raised plays the biggest role possible because oftentimes during her research, she found that teenagers killed themselves because of the inability to deal with grief and cruelty.

For example, a boy is raised in some suburban town in New England where everyone is Christian and few come out as gay, and he is taught that it is wrong to be gay, or maybe his parents don't talk about that sort of thing at all. Well, he turns out to be gay and in high school kids tease him, beat him up, treat him like crap and he feels as though the only way out of it is to kill himself, because he was never in a position where he was able to look up to or associate with other gay people. Maybe he was, but he was too afraid to.


Seriously, this girl (Ashley) is so smart. She wants to be a journalist.

[Becoz_i_knew_you21]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 1:20am

Anna, I like you even more for that post.

[AnnaK<3LMIP]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 1:22am

Aw thanks but you should like Ashley. I'll let her know.

She also has this WHOLE thing about how adults and teachers don't even realize a truly messed up teen when they see one because too many times teens have been generalized as moody kids who will give all adults tongue. So they never get the help they need. And in your teen years, it's so imperative to your growth as a human being that you get an experience where you can learn important things and develop yourself.

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 1:22am

some people are born with mental illness and it is noticable in childhood. some people are born with it and it does not show itself untill teenage years.
my cousin works at a mental hospital where they have a unit for elementary school age children.
not to say everyone with mental illness will kill themselves but there are some people who feel hopeless their whole lives.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 1:24am

Great post Anna. Thanks.

[MotorTink]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 1:24am

anna - I think it is awesome that your friend spoke out about all of this, but it is not really "super controversial" overall. To your school maybe, but not in general. Teen suicide is not some new rage. It's just more spoken about and dramatized in TV and movies. While suicide is still sometimes considered by some a shameful act, it is widely more accepted and therefore not hidden now a days.

85% (don't quote me on that exact number) of high school (and even Jr High) kids generally think about suicide at one point during their years there. But it doesn't mean 85% of those kids are serious risks.

Not in all areas but in some, there were more suicides reported in the rich private school sections, than the lower income public school area.

K, I've started rambling, I'll stop now!

[AnnaK<3LMIP]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 1:27am

True dat MotorTink, but it's true it was SUPER controversial in our school in light of the recent events.

I should really try to post the entire essay for you guys because really this is just me interpreting what she's saying. I'm not biased about it, mind you, but I'll see if I can post the whole thing tomarrow.

[feinstein9]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 1:37am

I'm not disagreeing with her points, which I think are generalized but justified, but she does seem to be taking the whole mental illness part out of the equation. Not everyone who kills themselves suffers from mental illness, but obviously many depressed/bi-polar/other time bomb people do. That seems like a pretty significant thing to leave out, unless it is in the actual essay and hasn't been relayed yet.

[AnnaK<3LMIP]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 1:40am

Well I think she's sort of implying that the inability to develop yourself as a human being leading to you not being able to deal with situations the right way and therefore, kill yourself, is a type of mental illness. I mean, I know there really are clinically depressed people with real mental illnesses, and she did mention them, but she didn't spend too much time on that.
You're absolutely right though.

[feinstein9]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 2:03am

That is interesting... although I wouldn't nessasarily call it a mental illness. The inability to develop mentally isn't so different than developing physically. Every class has a few runts (I am one of these), someone small who never got very tall or strong. Do you think she is saying that there is something going on in the same way mentally, i.e. that it's innate? Or is it like someone is malnutrioned and doesn't grow (again physically), i.e. it's situational? Kids learn at different speeds, so it's not such a stretch to think that their "coping skills" (for lack of a better word)would vary. There are always those classes in elementry and middle school for the "slow" kids. Is there an emotional equivilent?

[Yawper]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 2:11am

yeah, it's called therapy - a good therapist should be able to suss out whether someone's depression is chemical or situational

There hasn't been a tremendous amount of research specifically into suicide, but indicators are that suicide involves a combination of depression and impulsivity - Not all depressives commit suicide, but all suicides had depression. The differing factor seems to be impulsivity (which is an inherited trait). One proposed study (possibly underway by now) focuses on a particular allele pair. In the pair the alleles are either both short, both long, or one of each. Very small sample clinical observations are that people with a short pair have a history of suicide in their families.

I'll have to look around and see if I can find any more research along those lines.

So basically treating the depression is the key preventative, but not all depressives are going to be suicide prone.
Updated On: 6/4/07 at 02:11 AM

[feinstein9]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:07am

Regardless of how many people *should* go to therapy (in my mind, everybody)few people do, and even so it's useally after severe problems have become evident. In many cases, parents don't want there to be anything "wrong" with their kid so they're hesitant to take them to therapy. And if the kids lack personal insight, then they're not going to request to see a doctor. Add to that the fact that a lot of depressed people are depressed to the point where they feel they can't help themselves, like it's all hopeless, then the odds are not good that the people who need help are going to get it. And even after that, it's takes a lot of time to find the right levels of medication... it's a long process. The impulsivity thing makes a lot of sense, though. Actually that could explain *everything* in a very logical way. If every one who commits suicide is depressed, but not all depressed people kill themselves, there has to be something going on there, a trigger of some sort. I'm the sort of "think things out" and rumitate type person, which is why it's easy to talk myself out of doing anything potentially harmfull. If someone is impulsive, though, it's just going to happen. But then what about the people who plan it, and give things out before hand, or talk about it for a long time?

[Yawper]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:54am

"what about the people who plan it, and give things out before hand, or talk about it for a long time?"

It's a matter of whether or not they actually carry it out -

many plan but don't do - it can be a form of rumination

[misschung]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 3:43pm

this is a very interesting thread with some great points. To anyone who is interested in suicide, I highly recommend Kay Redfield Jameson's books - Touched With Fire and Night Falls Fast. They give lots of information about the history of suicide.

The numbers, again, are shocking to see, but frankly I'm not surprised considering what some teens deal with in their everyday lives. As someone who was at one time very depressed, I can see how a person without the resources that I had could very easily make that decision.

In terms of the impulsiveness - manic depressives have an extremely high rate of suicide which is usually carried out when they are in a manic state, not a depressed one

[broadwaytourist]

Posted: 6/4/07 at 5:56pm

My husband's sixteen year old nephew killed himself. One of the reasons Spring Awakening spoke to me - not the only one. It is so easy to try to blame one thing or one event for someone's decisions. Cause, after all, if you can find a cause, you might be able to prevent it in the future. But sometimes, the only person who knows why can't tell us anymore, and the not knowing why is haunting. It is for our family.

[shiksa_goddess]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 10:40am

My cousin committed suicide. Not entirely sure of his rationale. He was your typical valedictorian, well liked, sports player, etc. I think that he strived so hard to be perfect, that when he couldn't live up to his own expectations he decided life wasn't worth living. He didn't leave a note explaining his actions, he just went.

Simple answer to the question at hand; teen suicide is too common.

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 12:54pm

My mother is a teacher at a local high school and yearlier this year they found a girl standing on a ledge outside a bathroom window threatening to jump. This girl was the type you would generally assume would commit suicide--quiet, distanced from everyone else, she had had some really traumatizing, horrible things happen to her early in her life, she had even expressed some desire to kill herself to the school counselor--and still, nothing was done to prevent her sucidie attempt. They managed to talk her down but it was still very scary and a big wake-up call, I think.

[AnnaK<3LMIP]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 8:21pm

While I agree that kids should be able to seek help with therapists and what not, I'm assuming there's only so much a therapist can do right? I mean, I don't know much about psychology or psychiatry, but you can do your best to help them...

[1peter4:10]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 8:54pm

My sophmore year I went through the trauma of learning that three of my friends, completely unconnected, each had at one time attempted suicide. It was scary for me, a girl who had never even really thought about it, to have a close friend show me the scars on her wrists. It just seems wrong. People, and especially young people should not feel that they most resort to that last step. I wish i knew what could be done. I think, though, that I disagree that in some people suicide is inevitable. On top of that, what about the genetics element? I have encountered several cases where suicide "runs in the family," so to speak. Sometimes it is just out of desperation, but could it sometimes be genetic? Scary thought.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 9:27pm

Suicide is not genetic/hereditary, but depression/mental illness is.

[Yawper]

Posted: 6/5/07 at 10:53pm

Actually there probably is a genetic component to it, but that doesn't mean it's inevitable.

Everybody always wishes that something could be done, but few push hard for the research necessary to learn the answers.

[jordangirl]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 4:09am

It's sadly not uncommon for there to be an "epidemic" of suicides at a school. Once one does it, others see the attention shown to that one in death and it all of a sudden becomes "easier" and more "acceptable" in their heads. Once there is a suicide at a schoo the counseling staff as well as the teachers should be working overtime to identify at-risk kids and see that they do have help and know that there are options.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/9/07 at 6:40pm

just like some people will kill no matter what. they must be destroyed!