The Dark Knight Rises thread (warning: spoliers discussed)- Page 2

[strummergirl]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 3:37pm

Spoilers:

First to reply to romantico's post:
Batman did not know that about Bane then, hence why the next round they fought he aimed for the mask.

Duh... Batman gets the **** kicked out of him by Bane, the image of his back breaking is a the trademark of Bane's villainy.

Yes, it is a medical miracle what happened to him but he was not in good shape to begin with and the next time he knew what to do rather than trying to outdo a brute.

I am curious to know your other complaints were as far as story? Was it Talia?

Now onto the film:
This film relates far more to Batman Begins than The Dark Knight and I think the film had to outright state it with the Ra's al-Ghul flashback. I thought it was superfluous. Just show Josh Spence with the beard and let Talia make the connection instead of misdirection. But I guess the gap between the films required that to be done. The review on io9, that I read after the film, did make mention that you should probably go in with Batman Begins fresher in the brain.

The football scene was the Hong Kong scene in the last film. I understand testing the bomb but from the moment I saw it in the trailers I thought Michael Bay.

Yes, I think Alfred would leave in this universe. Bruce is alone and Alfred not wanting to see a love one die by destroying himself. Think of seeing a recovering addict relapse under your watch.

I actually thought this was Bale's best performance as both Bruce Wayne and Batman and I put that on Anne Hathaway's Selina Kyle being his foil. I know understand if Harry Knowles just thought she was fine, he didn't like the film. To me, it showed what Batman/Bruce was missing. Harry seemed to like Talia more but that would almost require a whole movie of that character canon. Making her her father's daughter by tricking Bruce Wayne in a number of ways, including villain misdirection (BB with Scarecrow's psychological/chemical warfare, TDKR with Bane's all-out warfare) and identity makes sense. But back to Hathaway, she was definitely the best part in the film and gave Batman a much needed kick in the pants.

JGL was good but he is like a cocktail of spare parts to all the Robins, mainly Jason Todd minus the troubled, outlaw period with some of Jim Gordon in Batman: Year One. I wish they just gave him one of the names rather than Robin John Blake . I mean he could have been named Tim Drake and it would not dawn on people besides comic readers of who that was as many just think Dick Grayson if at all. That said it was a passing comment that was not too big of a deal.

I actually thought although Bane is a brute and the body count is ridiculous (I still cannot believe Knowles thought more people died in TDK) but nowhere as dark as The Joker. He had no plans but destruction and using fear to turn on each other, more guerrilla and unpredictable. Talia and Bane's world is like Robespierre's France and I can see why Nolan made the connection to A Tale of Two Cities with this story.

I liked the film. It clearly threaded the roots of the character as Nolan saw it and finally gave a good foil, strong, female character that Nolan left aside too long. If people are thinking it is a continuation of TDK or have TDK expectations, I can understand the disappointment. But I liked it and to me it was clear how the characters were design or there more than some of the first two films with ancillary characters both original and from the comics that just felt misused and unnecessary. I even liked the ending which I knew from word of mouth at the midnight screenings was polarizing. I'm glad he didn't die. Now that would have been dark.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 3:40pm

Jordan, I didn't get that either tbh. He only breaks when he realizes he gets betrayed but not with those who knew or found him out. I guess it just becomes a state of mind after a while.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 3:45pm

Maybe it's just the fabulous jeweled choker he wears under the mask that's pressing into his throat but it's such a fierce piece of bling that girlfriend wouldn't dare take it off since it's the only time he can wear it in public and not be judged by society.

[Kad]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 3:52pm

They sort of dodge the whole breaking of Bruce's back by handwaving it with "it's just a dislocated vertebrae". Yes, it's still impossible- but it's the Batman universe. The climax of TDK revolved around a deus ex machina tracking device.

It's not better than TDK (I guess that's the Empire Strikes Back of this trilogy), but I rank it above Batman Begins, easily.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 4:01pm

I also want to add the third act was stronger than the first two films. The Sonar system, the reverse Milgram experiment of the two escape boats, and threatening Gordon's kid so Harvey Dent had to die was the one thing I think this film had over TDK. Even the bridge scene that was closer to TDK at least felt properly tense and real without commenting on society.

[romantico]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 5:07pm

I was aware about Bane and the whole breaking Batman's spine from the comics.Wasn't sure they were going to go into that history though. Bane never broke Batman's back in BATMAN and ROBIN with George Clooney(sorry, I know it is blasphemy to bring up Schumacher's Batman films, LOL)

I actually knew Talia was going to be in it so I was not really surprised. Did they explain why in the beginning of the film Bruce walked with a cane? I may have missed it. The theater was pretty noisy plus I thought the film's soundtrack overpowered dialogue at times.

I could not believe as much as Bruce meant to Alfred that he would just leave Bruce.In all the films Alfred has shown how much he cares about him and it didn't make sense. I also thought Bruce becoming a recluse and retiring Batman was lame. Batman would never just give up and feel sorry for himself. Batman was true crime fighter so taking the time off over the past 8 years and then faking his death and living in Europe sounds out of character to me.

I wish we got to know a little more about BANE and his background.What made the first two BATMAN films for me was the characters and what made the villains tick.All we really know about Bane is that he big and he kills people.If Talia could never forgive her father for the way he treated Bane why would she avenge his death? I wish they would have revealed who she was earlier and spent some time understanding her motivation.

The whole taking Gotham City hostage angle is a hard pill to swallow. Ra's al Ghul wanted to destroy Goth in the first film. We saw and understood it, even though it was twisted.The Joker was crazy and just wanted to see the world burn. I get that. Why prolong Gotham's destruction? What does the villain(s) have to gain with that and why? Were Talia and Bane going to die with everyone else?

I have even more questions and complaints but these plot holes really disturbed me.It's not like PROMETHEUS where the film got cut down to two hours. No. THE DARK KNIGHT RISES had 2 hours and 44 minutes and they wasted the time so hearing explanations based on assumptions or some other source not in the film is unacceptable to me.If there are deleted scenes that show up on the blu ray that answers some of these questions then great but it does no good now.

I really wanted to love this film having loved the others so much.I think Anne Hathaway stole this film. BANE? Well, anyone could have played the part.Freeman,Oldman,Caine,etc were all good considering what they were given. I guess my question now is, where do they go from here?

They'll have to reboot BATMAN again now. New director,actor,cast,etc.I'd like to see them do THE KILLING JOKE or THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS (Frank Miller,please write the screenplay) but I doubt they will.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 6:12pm

Anyone else see the MAN OF STEEL trailer before the movie? The audience I was with started laughing and one guy yelled "Too Soon!"

lol. My thoughts exactly.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 6:32pm

The Doctor told Bruce that both knees had virtually no cartilage and he came just for that one knee. I am guessing years of abuse. They never pulled any punches about his injuries in the previous films.

You either believe she and he wanted to watch Bruce suffer from destroying her father's plans or you don't. I doubt she thought he would make it out of the Pit. Her escape from there is considered legend, not a fact, but a hope. She died thinking she fulfilled her father's plan and did so in her own way while making the man who killed her father suffer more than any other previous villain imagined.

No point of Bane without the back breaking. He is not a character you can mold like the Joker or Catwoman and get multiple, good reinterpretations. Talia was the mastermind anyway. Bane did the heavy lifting. There was a prologue to Bane's backstory for IMAX screenings at some point, IIRC. None of the baddies in any of the trilogy have a backstory, in fact, I would argue we get tons of backstory, albeit in exposition between Bane and Talia than the Joker, Scarecrow, or Two Face.

Batman became a villain under the ruse of a noble lie. That's why he quit. He wanted the law to handle the crime while raising the specter of Harvey Dent and vilifying himself to do so. It worked. No way Batman was that crazy to continue for petty crime. Think about the Gotham Police at the beginning, almost giddy about getting real work again.

And Jordan, my theater actually was shocked by the red S reappearing again. Mainly because it looked like Henry Cavill was in a dock movie for a good minute. I am trying to remain positive, but Zack Snyder has some Michael Bay in Pearl Harbor Americana cinematography going and I winced a bit. Updated On: 7/20/12 at 06:32 PM

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 9:00pm

And Jordan, my theater actually was shocked by the red S reappearing again. Mainly because it looked like Henry Cavill was in a dock movie for a good minute.

At first I honestly thought it was a trailer for a film version of The Deadliest Catch.

[E.Davis]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 11:20pm

A.G, that is what my friend turned to me and said when the trailer started.

Also people seem to forget like mentioned above that the real villain of the film was Talia. Marion gave a wonderful subtle performance.

[Playbilly]

Posted: 7/20/12 at 11:42pm

Anybody upset that Catwoman is the one to "defeat" Bane? And all we're left with is that he blasted against a wall?

It was similar, but lesser, to The Joker's ambiguous capture in TDK.

None of Nolan's movies ever really impress me. Way too many potholes, with a lot of bluster to distract you. Fun to watch, but the more I think of them, the less I think OF them. Same with this movie.

[beautywickedlover]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 12:41am

I saw it tonight and it was PRETTY DARN GOOD. The acting in it was terrific. I've appreciated Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Gary Oldman, and Anne Hathaway more and more as the years have gone by and I was once again very impressed with them. Marion Cotillard and Tom Hardy were excellent villains. The story was also very well-done.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 2:16am

Just got back. I liked it, but I thought it was way too dark. Psychologically and emotionally disturbing with a little too much terrorism and violence for my liking. Some of the stuff that they showed was just unnecessary violence. I thought parts were a little confusing and rushed, and there were a lot of plot holes. Also, it was IMPOSSIBLE to understand Bane, and I also had a hard time understanding Batman's dialogue when he is in his suit... When him and Bane were talking, I could not tell who was saying what. Anne Hathaway was by far my favorite part of the film. She was just perfect. All in all I enjoyed it, but I just think it was way too dark and disturbing. We get the city is in trouble, we don't need to see terrifying image after terrifying image to get it.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 9:55am

Anybody upset that Catwoman is the one to "defeat" Bane?

Yes. Like I said earlier, she essentially becomes Bat Girl for the second half of the film.

Updated On: 7/21/12 at 09:55 AM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 10:10am

Am I the only one who doesn't really get the whole "the movie was SO dark!" thing? I've seen dark movies before (maybe all of them) and this was far from a "dark" movie.

[romantico]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 10:19am

I can't speak for everybody but when I say dark I mean it seemed a bit more extreme IMO.The dead bodies hanging over the bridge hit a little too close to home with the US soldiers bodies a few years back in Fallujah and then this spring a similar thing in Mexico. Some of the deaths and Batman being tortured and getting the crap kicked out of him.I mean, kids go to these Batman movies and I thought it was more adult friendly then kid friendly.Not saying Batman movies need to be light or have comedy in them. No, I LOVE the first two Nolan Batman films.All I am saying is lets not forget Batman is a comic book hero and I feel they made this particular Batman movie into a serious adult only film. Would an R rating have been that much different?

I could be wrong. I know The Dark Knight was very intense and had it's dark moments as well but I thought they could have lightened up slightly since they were wrapping the series up. I guess it a matter of taste. I have disagreed with people here about movies before and then turned around and agreed with them on another,so I think its personal for everyone. I was hoping for more.

Updated On: 7/21/12 at 10:19 AM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 10:22am

Well (to me) that's reading too much into something but maybe that's what he was going for. Personally I would have been happy if it were "darker" than what it was. But I will say that I've started to really lose interest in movies once I see my apartment building get blown up. And since I moved to this building, I see it a lot in movies.

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 11:12am

I don't think it was dark at all, never thought the second film was either. The bodies hanging from the bridge is and was very tame, really there was no blood in this movie at all. The fight scenes where boring.

[ucjrdude902]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 11:14pm

I enjoyed it and thought it was a great conclusion for the trilogy. I thought Anne was great.

[beautywickedlover]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 11:41pm

"Like I said earlier, she essentially becomes Bat Girl for the second half of the film."

I thought that as well, but my friend, who went with me and is big comic book lover, said that Catwoman is not completely evil in the comic books. She just looks out for No. 1 and becomes a better person as time goes by.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 10:37am

Her character definitely had the Catwoman of the Ed Brubaker run.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 10:55pm

Just saw this again tonight. I liked it a lot less. The plot holes became a lot more obvious, and the twist at the end just seemed dumb. I still can't get over the fact that Batman got back into Gotham City when every entry was blocked, and he had a spinal injury. Too far fetched. **SPOILER ALERT** Also the idea of EVERY single police officer being in the same place at once AND getting trapped is way too out there. That's kind of how I felt about everything in the movie though. Anne Hathaway and Marion Cotillard were just as great the second time around thought.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/23/12 at 10:59am

From the NYTimes.

Warner was already working to reimagine Batman for another film series, although a reboot would not come before 2015 at the earliest, given the production cycle these kinds of effects-driven movies require.


oh. yay. clap. clap. clahh

[beautywickedlover]

Posted: 8/13/12 at 2:01pm

I went back to see the film again last week and I still enjoyed it very much. I also appreciated the ending more that time around because the first time I went to see it, there was a clueless lady in the audience who forgot to turn her phone off and did not know how to do it apparently because it was new.