The no-kids-allowed movement is spreading.

[Q]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 8:24am

Any article that starts like this is bound to get my attention:

"What's the matter with kids today and why doesn't anyone want them around?"

I know I'm far off the scale when it comes to my dislike of being around children, but this isn't something I'm seeing around me at all. In fact, I feel surrounded by out-of-control brats and entitled parents with strollers the size of Buicks most of the time. I'd be ecstatic if I could find businesses that moved in this direction.

And I'm pretty amused at comments that cry discrimination, when so much in our society seems geared around the concept "Think of the children!"
Link to article.

[AC126748]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 8:32am

In fact, I feel surrounded by out-of-control brats and entitled parents with strollers the size of Buicks most of the time.

It's true. And, I'm sad to say, it's my own generation who have become the entitled, self-important parents of these terrors. I can't remember the last time I went out to dinner (and I'm not talking Applebee's) where some clueless couple didn't cart along their kids and let them either scream or run up and down the restaurant aisles while I (and pretty much everyone else) am trying to have a meal with adults. And the parents either act like it's not happening or think it's adorable. Or they think it's their right to ruin the evening of everyone else around them. And if you say something to them--as I have, several times--the entitlement comes out full-force. I've heard things that would make the well-educated LIRR lady shake her head.

And I can barely make sense of it. My parents took me and my brother out to dinner, to the movies, shopping, etc, and instilled in us the fact that we had to behave a certain way in public. They never had to ply us with game boys at the dinner table or promise us "treats" for behaving; in fact, we knew we'd lose privileges if we didn't act the right way. Nowadays, it's a kid's world and they can do whatever they want.

When I was in college, I frequented a movie theatre that banned children under six and required all minors to have parental supervision, regardless of what film they were seeing. It was heaven.

[D2]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 8:38am

Q, you know my feelings on the matter.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 8:38am

My latest experience with this was coming back from NYC on Amtrak. I was on the quiet car and these two couples brought their 5 kids into this car. When they started making noise, I stood up and said, "Oh no you don't" and immediately got the conductor to have them located to another car. The woman came up to me as they were moving and said "I hope you're happy". She was indignant no less. The quiet car is clearly marked. Take your brats somewhere else.

[madbrian]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 8:48am

I am a parent of three somewhat grown daughters, ages 24, 20 and 16. When they were younger, whenever we dined out, we had a zero tolerance for bad behavior. I immediately removed the problem, apologizing to others around me, and kept my kid outside until she had seen the errors of her ways. Like any other form of parenting, with consistency, it's usually a fairly simple task. So, as you can imagine, I now have no tolerance for parents who allow their kids to misbehave, so I'd fully support these initiatives. Although I'd guess that it will be a pendulum that will swing too far, then have to find some sort of balance.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 9:16am

I'm surprised the airlines haven't figured out that they'd make a lot more money by charging extra for "No Child Allowed" flights.

[Eris0303]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 9:25am

When I worked in retail I mostly worked in store gears at children so I saw a lot of them every day. Sure, I saw a lot of bad kids but I also saw a lot of good ones. Ones who said "please" and "thank you". I don't think it's quite fair to make a "no children allowed" policy. A "no disruptive children allowed" might be a better one.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 9:47am

A "No parents who think their children are their equals and don't want to upset them by disciplining them or making them feel less than the perfect little person they are" policy is better.

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 9:51am

Maybe it is just the places I frequent and the families with young children I know, but from what I see the entitled parents and spoiled brats thing is a very small percentage of the parents and children out there. I think it is fine to have a zero tolerance policy for kids who are doing something wrong, like asking a family with screaming kids to leave a restaurant, but to punish a family with well behaved children is ridiculous.

I know many children who behave better when out in public than many of the adults I know. They say please and thank you, they look at you when you speak, and not at these stupid smart phones that have been taking over our lives. I would much prefer to have "no electronics allowed" establishments over "no children allowed" ones.

Finally, a note on the airplane thing. Imagine you are a baby or toddler. It is very difficult for you to express what you are feeling in a normal circumstance. Now all of a sudden, through no fault of your own, you feel like you are about to have your head come right off, the pain is unlike anything you have experienced. Of course you are going to scream and cry (hell, the pain is so great for me, a guy in his mid twenties, I sometimes feel like I am going to scream). I know it is not the ideal situation for all of us on the plane, but to blame the kid for being in pain and trying to express that to his/her parent...really?

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 10:01am

Jacob, I get that babies cry on planes for that reason. What I do not have patience for is the 3, 4, 5 year olds who kick your seat, throw tantrums, scream at the top of their lungs, all while the parents read their kindles. "Oh, it's just her first time on a plane", I've heard. My father would have WHOOPED MY ASS if I ever behaved anywhere like that.

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 10:14am

Jordan, ok, that behavior is just bad, and I agree that there should be no patience when it comes to it.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 10:18am

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 10:27am

THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR!

[artscallion]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 10:32am

"...like asking a family with screaming kids to leave a restaurant, but to punish a family with well behaved children is ridiculous."

The problem with that is that no restaurant in their right mind is going to want to escalate the disruption by telling a family, in the middle of dinner, that they have to pack everyone up and leave. Even asking the parents to control their kids is fraught with potential bad reactions from bad parents that will just make things worse and make the restaurant look bad. I think if you accept kids, you have to kind of accept a reasonable amount of what comes with that...or not accept kids at all, which I'm also fine with.


I mean, if they're running around grabbing bread sticks off other peoples' tables, the restaurant has an obligation to step in and say something, I think. But, short of that, If they're just crying or clinking the plate with their fork to make noise because they're bored, I think the most a waitperson should do is ask the parents, with concern, if there's anything they can do to help little Susie settle in and enjoy herself. It's friendly, non-judgmental and understanding, while getting the point across that there are other people who are noticing Susie's behavior.

The theatre I work for doesn't allow children under 3 and has no discounts for older children. People complain occasionally that they have to pay full price for a 5 year old for a string quartet performance. We are not afraid to tell them that we don't have child prices because we present evening events for adults. And that while we don't refuse children over 3, we also don't encourage their attendance. Discrimination? Sure. But every place is not for everybody. Season subscribers to one of our classical music series would be all over us if our audience was littered with squirming, crying children because their parent's thought a discounted ticket was cheaper than a babysitter. Sometimes you just need to leave the kids at home, or take them to an outdoor pops concert.

Updated On: 7/27/11 at 10:32 AM

[Eris0303]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 10:45am

My father would have WHOOPED MY ASS if I ever behaved anywhere like that.

I think that is part of the issue right there. "Ass whooping" is no longer socially acceptable. There have been cases of parents being arrested for disciplining their children in public. And I'm not talking abuse but just plain discipline (ie arm grabbing and such). I think there's also fear of being arrested for "abusing" their child.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 10:48am

"Git down on theyah levow!"

Frankly, it's not discrimination if something is geared towards adults or if someone wants to discourage children from attending something, especially if it's not appropriate. Bringing a baby to an R rated film because you cant get a sitter is just not acceptable. I LOVE going to a child free resort. We went to one in cancun that actually shooed people with kids away on the beach.

I like kids if they are well behaved, but it's just so rare anymore. I'm sure that makes me sound like a fogey, and perhaps I am.

I'd rather eat dinner with a group of smokers than one poorly behaved child.

[AC126748]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 10:54am

^ That's why I'm constantly dismayed when places like, say, The Delacorte allow people to bring their babies to Shakespeare in the Park performances. Not only is it potentially disruptive and possibly dangerous (holding a baby in 95 degree heat for 3+ hours, anyone?), it's so obviously not geared towards them and represents the petulance/laziness/cheapness of the parents.

And I'd also like to eat a nice dinner at a restaurant without kids screaming and running. I'm still always shocked when people show up to more upscale places with a couple of kids, sometimes late in the night.

[Q]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 11:12am

"I don't think it's quite fair to make a 'no children allowed' policy"

Why can't a business decide for itself what it's going to offer, and let the market decide what happens? I have a feeling, if a restaurant decided to offer an 'adults only' (even for just one night a week,) they'd be overrun with business. If they weren't, it would only be in their best interest not to make that parameter. But why should private businesses be told what they can or cannot offer in their own establishments?

Of course, I felt that way about smoking, as well - but that's a whole different can of worms.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 11:15am

My parents always told me if I misehavef in a restaurant, we would leave. I decided to test this exactly once, when I was about 5. My parents apologized to the staff and other diners, and we left. I was given a frozen tv dinner to eat.

I never acted up at a restaurant again.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 11:18am

I don't think I can calculate how much I'd pay to take an adults-only flight.

[Calvin]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 11:21am

Can we start a "dress-your-kids" movement, too? I don't care how hot it is outside. Nobody wants to see you carting your kid around in nothing but a diaper, and I certainly don't want that sitting next to me on the subway.

[AC126748]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 11:23am

Also, let's quit changing diapers in plain view. I was at an academic conference recently and a woman plopped her child (not a baby; probably closer to 3 or 4) down on the floor and changed him in view of everyone. It was disgusting--especially since the conference site had changing tables in bathrooms as well as a family bathroom.

[madbrian]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 11:25am

I have a much bigger problem with the way many adults dress themselves, let alone their kids.

[AC126748]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 11:28am

I would say that Calvin's point is valid because adults don't walk around in just their underwear, but that's not even true anymore.

[Q]

Posted: 7/27/11 at 11:29am

"let's quit changing diapers in plain view"

Not to mention the joyous habit of not throwing them in a trash can when you're done!