Travolta's denial of his son's autism- Page 2

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 10:47pm

No one said a word about curing anyone, Abba. But this is an age old argument. You say that trying to find a cure for autism is "crap" so I have to assume you are one of the lucky ones why can tie your own shoes, type on a keyboard, communicate and wipe your own ass. The kids I work with are not as lucky. If you were cleaning up feces that your 12 year old son threw at the wall on a daily basis, I am sure you would have a different opinion. Imagine your child screaming out in pain and not being able to tell you what was wrong. If something like that can be cured, why wouldn't you?

And Mes, no, there is no proof. Autism doesn't have a test to diagnose. Diagnosis is made by the presence of a certain number of symptoms. And I saw a video of Travolta's son at the beach, flapping his arms and rocking back and forth. They can claim it's anything else, but it certainly looks like the most typical outward signs of pretty severe autism.

And yep, kids can be completely mainstreamed and the autism diagnosis can be removed completely. We tend to call it typical as opposed to normal.

Updated On: 7/17/07 at 10:47 PM

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 10:58pm

i was not refering to curing it being crap i was refering to "cure autism now" being crap.

but since you brought it up...
i have worked with kids who had it very severely.
i worked one on one with a girl who was my age but functioned at the leval of a toddler. she couldn't talk or be by herself. she had to have a nurse stay with her untill her parents got home after she got home from school. i helped her eat her snack the way you would help a baby eat. i took her to the mall once with the help of two occupational therapists and had to catch her on the escalator beacuse no one told me she would fall if she got on it. she will probably never hold a job or do anything like that. she was the happiest person i ever met.
and i met her mom who would not change a thing about her because in her eyes she was perfect the way she is.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 7/17/07 at 11:54pm

Well, more power to her, but the parents I know would have their child cured if they could. These kids are loved but life is not easy for them. Special needs kids are able to go to school until the day the turn 21 and then they are out. Then the parents have to either be a full time caregiver or hope to be able to afford a decent live in facility. Many of them end up in institutions and the like once their parents are gone. You just don't know what it is like for a parent until you have lived with it 24/7. I know better than most therapists since I do live with it. We live with deadbolts locked on all doors, cabinets and the fridge. We have to wear keys around our necks. We can't take him to movies because he disturbs other people. We can't take him to the beach because he wants to swim out to deep water. He can't read. He has a 20 word vocabulary and those are only words to request what he wants. The other kids I work with have no functional language at all. Out of all the kids I work with and know from the community, he is the happiest. He is always smiling and he is as cute as can be. If I could take all of the symptoms away and make him into a typical 11 year old boy tomorrow, I wouldn't hesitate.

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 12:09am

institutions and group homes are not always a bad thing. my mom's cousin has severe mental illness and lives in a group home now and lived in a hospital for years befor that. he is cared for beacuse he could not care for himself. there is nothing bad about that.
my neighbor will end up in a group home soon. this will be the best thing for him.

i get that i dont understand what you're saying beacuse i'm not a parent, but you dont understand what i'm saying beacuse you dont experience it firthand, you only experience what those who are around the boy experience.
i know you say you want to cure him, you dont know if the boy you take care of wants to be cured since he can't tell you.
just beacuse someone isn't "typical" doesn't mean they are not happy being the way they are.

[RockabyeHamlet]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 1:05am

It's so sad that his son will never get the help he needs, because he (John) is in denial.

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 1:08am

Don't you get it, RockabyeHamlet? Maybe they are happy that way!

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 12:36pm

He IS happy the way he is. He is the happiest child I know. But when he is unhappy, often because his apraxia makes it impossible to say the words he wants to, he bites his own hands and arms until they bleed or he smacks himself in the head. When kids highly effected hit puberty, often seizures and violent outbursts come with it. I know a mother who can't be left alone with her 16 year old son because if he can't have what he wants, when he wants it, he beats her black and blue. Presently, there are around 50 holes in her walls because of his outbursts. When he isn't acting out, he is the sweetest child. There is a big difference between Aspergers Syndrome or high functioning autism and severe autism where symptoms include fine and gross motor issues, severe digestive issues, seizures and apraxia.

As for Travolta, it absolutely is his right to keep things quiet. And I can totally understand not wanting your child to be the "face of autism." I just have a lot of respect for Toni Braxton, Holly Robinson-Pete and Doug Flutie who bring awareness to the issue. Then there is Jenny McCarthy. She is bringing awareness because of her son, but her ideas about it are pretty wonky.

Updated On: 7/18/07 at 12:36 PM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 12:45pm

Autism is not a mental illness, is it? I thought it was either neurological or a development disorder. I also thought that although it can be treated there is no cure.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 12:51pm

It's in the DSM, so it's considered a mental illness: it's under the category "Pervasive Developmental Disorder." While it no doubt has some basis in neurology, most psychopathology does. The DSM also does include neurological disorders; I believe that Tourettes is in there.

Also, Scientology doesn't differentiate between mental illness and neurological disorders. They won't even acknowledge epilepsy as an illness requiring medication.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 1:13pm

There are many kids who have been mainstreamed through behavior therapy, which is what I do. We have no idea why some show improvement and some don't. We can take two kids with the most similar patterns and they will learn at completely different levels. It's all a mystery. Every few years, someone will try a new "method" of treatment and if a few kids are mainstreamed, it seems the whole community jumps on that bandwagon. (All the methods are based on B.F. Skinners analysis of behavior. People just come up with different ways of executing it.) The truth seems to be that no two kids learn the same or respond to the same method of treatment, just like typical kids. Everyone wants to stick square pegs in round holes. Then there is the biomedical track which is very controversial. While some of my kids don't show much change through biomedical treatments such as chelation, I have one that really does.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 1:28pm

Though I am personally really bad with autistic kids, your work sounds fascinating. Is it just behavioral therapy or is it cognitive-behavioral?

[Elphaba]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 1:33pm

mes, I believe you missed the point. Here is what the author said:

"Travolta sits there in interviews talking about how Jett loves to read or play sports, but it is clear that the boy can barely do either," the editor said."

To me, it is not a matetr of loving, but doing. Travolta infers his son reads and plays sports. The authors opinion is that the boy can barely do either.

With early treatment he probably would.

The issue isn't what the boy loves, but what he cannot do because Travolta is in denial.

And yes, I have autistic friends, and yes they do things, and YES all had treatment early.

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 1:53pm

There is a big difference between Aspergers Syndrome or high functioning autism and severe autism where symptoms include fine and gross motor issues, severe digestive issues, seizures and apraxia

those happen in higher functioing forms as well. i have two of the four the things you listed (digestive issues and siezures) and i know someone who has aspergers who is unable to talk when he is overwhelmed.

and i dont think the article was sayng that travolta was implying that his son is a star athlete or an avid reader. the article said that he loves those things, not that he exceles in them.

most people with forms of autism do not consiter it a mental illness, they consiter is either neurological or developmental, like sueleen said.
there are alot of things in the dsm that aren't really true mental illnesses. after all, homosexuality used to be in there too and we all know that's not a mental illness.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 2:03pm

Just because something is included in the DSM-IV, doesn't make it a mental illness. The DSM is divided into five axes relating to a disability. Axes one includes developmental and learning disabilities.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 2:05pm

They removed homosexuality for the reason. They haven't removed autism. We can argue that point when the DSM-V is released. And again, it's considered a Pervasive Developmental Disorder ("Developmental" being the key word here.) Developmental disorders can be mental.

I think though that the line between neurological and mental disorders is pretty blurred. For instance, schizophrenia is pretty much considered a mental illness, but it also has neurological/physical components.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 2:08pm

Autism is there, because it IS a disorder. That doesn't make it a mental illness. Medical conditions and physical disorders are also included (Axis 3) It is not only about mental illnesses.
Updated On: 7/18/07 at 02:08 PM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 2:18pm

Yes, I know that the DSM includes other types of disorders. I just looked in my neurobiology textbook and it called autism a developmental disorder, but the only developmental disorders categories I've ever seen have been in the context of psychopathology. Soo... I'm confused.

[DAME]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 2:19pm

Travolta Autism Plea

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 2:48pm

It is not an absolute that early intervention makes for a more typical adult. In fact, recent studies (that's all there is when it comes to autism), indicate that strides made in childhood, begin to reverse, in adulthood. Meaning, the autism reverts back to its worse form, which is typically realized in early childhood. One thing that I do know, is that it is important to accept the autism, and allow the child to be who they are. The most typically-behaved people with autism that I have seen (I've seen a lot), are those that were allowed to be autistic, with some behavioral expectations. Making eye contact really isn't an important thing in life. Allowing a toddler to stand in the middle of their own living room and spin around and flap their arms goes a long way to their being able to control that behavior, when they're in church, or a restaurant, or the bank. It isn't about curing anyone, it's about accepting them for who and what they are, and doing the least amount of modification, to make their lives better in a society that has certain requirements for them to co-exist with a more typical population. There is no "normal", just typical.

[nealb1]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 5:34pm

Is he in denial about his son.....probably...who knows? Is it anyone's business? NO!
Updated On: 7/18/07 at 05:34 PM

[DAME]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 6:05pm

Oh please.. go preach somewhere else....

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 6:13pm

how come someone is only allowed to "preach" (beacuse that's what others are doing as well) if they're agreeing with you?

[DAME]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 6:18pm

I just meant the " Is it anyones business" part. He is a celebrity. It is being written about. And if your going to practice what you preach.. then why click on this thread at all?

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 6:25pm

And if your going to practice what you preach.. then why click on this thread at all?

... confussed.

maybe it's beacuse what you said has nothing to do with anything i or anyone else has said... but who knows.

[DAME]

Posted: 7/18/07 at 6:29pm

I was responding to the post directly above mine.