Bitter Losers Tony Thread- Page 7

[froote]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 1:52pm

MCfan2 said: "I do see the similarities between N2N and DEH, but I think that ultimately DEH is the more hopeful show. Even taking into account that Evan has done a terrible thing. Or perhaps especially taking that into account, because there's the implication that even when we do bad things and justly suffer the consequences, there may be a way to find forgiveness in the end, and start again. I don't think N2N really went there, and it ended with the damaged character isolating herself instead of reaching for renewed human connection, which always grated on me a little.

Sorry for being non-bitter in the bitter thread! I just wanted to comment on that particular topic. I like both shows, but to me, that's one advantage that DEH has above N2N. At least, I see it as an advantage."

I mean, Next to Normal's finale is a song centered around the line 'there will be light'. To me, that's hopeful. But it's not hopeful in an unrealistic way like DEH. Next to Normal's ending is bittersweet, because manic depression often does not have a happy ending, rather there are moments of light to help people get through. DEH's clean and tidy 'everyone forgave me and my social anxiety is so much better and it's gonna be a good day!' feels so much less genuine and therefore less moving.

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 1:56pm

Like a previous poster, I'm still bitter that Jon Jon briones didn't get nominated. I'm also annoyed that David HP and josh groman got nominated I mean they were very good but no comparison to JJ's performance as the engineeer. 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 2:04pm

I mean, Next to Normal's finale is a song centered around the line 'there will be light'. To me, that's hopeful. But it's not hopeful in an unrealistic way like DEH. Next to Normal's ending is bittersweet, because manic depression often does not have a happy ending, rather there are moments of light to help people get through.

Completely agree.  Justly suffering the consequences is not something that happens in DEH.  By the time the score deflated, I at least wanted something representing justice.  Instead, I got slapped in the face by the author's kid gloves.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 2:11pm

I'm also annoyed that David HP and josh groman got nominated I mean they were very good but no comparison to JJ's performance as the engineeer.

Well, to be fair, Hyde Pierce and Groban haven't been playing their respective roles for over two decades prior to Broadway.

[ozjust4]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 2:11pm

Dear Evan Hansen only deserved two of the awards they won-Ben & Rachel. The show is highly mediocre and they stole Come From Away's award for Best Musical. Not surprised they won, but I am still truly disappointed.

[MCfan2]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 2:16pm

froote said: "I mean, Next to Normal's finale is a song centered around the line 'there will be light'. To me, that's hopeful. But it's not hopeful in an unrealistic way like DEH. Next to Normal's ending is bittersweet, because manic depression often does not have a happy ending, rather there are moments of light to help people get through. DEH's clean and tidy 'everyone forgave me and my social anxiety is so much better and it's gonna be a good day!' feels so much less genuine and therefore less moving.

 

"

I'm not sure EVERYONE forgives him -- that isn't made clear, is it? A lot of his relationships are broken. But his mother forgives him, and their relationship is restored, and to me that's a more tangible, real kind of hope, to know that at least there's one person still loving and supporting him. But there's a large amount of subjectivity in all this. My larger point is just that, while there are major similarities between the two shows, I think there are also significant differences.

 

[Robbie2]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 2:21pm

Sauja said: "Robbie2 said: "Ashley over Chavkin or Greif?????????"

 

I know it's a day later, but I have to add: "Or Zaks or Warchus?!" I was SO thrilled to see Rebecca Taichman win for her stunning direction of Indecent--a glorious surprise. And then my heart thudded to the floor with Ashley's win. I'm not much of a Great Comet fan (I know--I'm sorry), but I did think Chavkin deserved the win. I think the success of that show rests entirely on her shoulders. But truly, if she was going to lose, there were still three better choices than Christopher Ashley's hokey, ridiculous direction of Come from Away. I'm still floored. There were other surprises, but nothing made my jaw drop like that choice.

 

 

"

I hear ya but once again ASHLEY!?

[froote]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 2:28pm

By everyone, I largely meant the Murphys who according to them are brought closer together by his horrible actions. It's not like Alana or the people at school were ever important to him beyond the superficial nature of having lots of friends.

There are differences and in my opinion they're all in Next to Normal's favor. 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 2:36pm

A lot of his relationships are broken.

Just the ones that were created out of his lies, resulting in a zero sum.  The character didn't lose anything more than he started with.  It's like a less funny and more sickening How to Succeed taken seriously.

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 5:01pm

My boyfriend was very sad that Danny Devito did not win. I thought that was one of the biggest upsets, especially since they presented that category first. It seems to usually go the way of a "big star."

Anyway, I didn't see Great Comet, but it's a shame that Rachel Chavkin didn't win because then both Best Directors this year would have been ladies.

I wouldn't say I'm "bitter" about anything, but this year's telecast had some big hits (Bandstand, War Paint, the "plugin" bit with Sara and Chazz) and some big misses (Evan Hansen sweep, Dolly's performance controversy, Come from Away winning the wrong award). If you really want to know my live reactions, you can check my Twitter feed. Lol...

Updated On: 6/12/17 at 05:01 PM

[South Florida]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 5:31pm

Bless your heart Ado nobody is going to check your live twitter feed.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 5:37pm

SF, you're really a piece of work aren't you?

[chernjam]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 6:07pm

Ado Annie D'Ysquith said: "My boyfriend was very sad that Danny Devito did not win. I thought that was one of the biggest upsets, especially since they presented that category first. It seems to usually go the way of a "big star."

Anyway, I didn't see Great Comet, but it's a shame that Rachel Chavkin didn't win because then both Best Directors this year would have been ladies.

I wouldn't say I'm "bitter" about anything, but this year's telecast had some big hits (Bandstand, War Paint, the "plugin" bit with Sara and Chazz) and some big misses (Evan Hansen sweep, Dolly's performance controversy, Come from Away winning the wrong award). If you really want to know my live reactions, you can check my Twitter feed. Lol...

"

Was surprised with the "plug ins" myself - particularly since not every show eligible was included (Anastasia, Cats, Sunset off the top of my head)

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 6:13pm

I was hoping that we'd at least get Annaleigh Ashford and Jake Gyllenhaal presenting an award, but.....

[chernjam]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 6:19pm

GeorgeandDot said: "I was hoping that we'd at least get Annaleigh Ashford and Jake Gyllenhaal presenting an award, but.....

"

another great point.

I think the Tony's producers were still miffed that "Sunday" decided they'd actually want to do justice to their investors and do their best to return the investment rather than get steamrolled by "Dolly" and then ignored when the awards were handed out... but that's just me

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 6/12/17 at 7:37pm

Uh, I'm aware of that, South Florida. It was a joke. Hence the "Lol."

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 8:24am

Mister Matt said: "I'm also annoyed that David HP and josh groman got nominated I mean they were very good but no comparison to JJ's performance as the engineeer.

Well, to be fair, Hyde Pierce and Groban haven't been playing their respective roles for over two decades prior to Broadway.

 

"

Then should we judge the strength of performance or the length of time an actor has spent on his role for a category titled "best PERFORMANCE by an actor in a musical"?

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 8:31am

dianamorales said: "Luckily, I spent the night at a viewing party full of people who knew little to nothing about the shows, and it gave me a real idea of what the general public would feel. They HATED Dolly and GHD. Penny in my Pocket is obviously a terrible representation of the show, but that's now their (and the general publics) impression of it. And I had to keep assuring them that GHD really is a great show and their performance wasnt representative of it. They kept asking me what Great Comet and CFA was about and making jokes throughout. They loved Miss Saigon and were confused and upset when Eva lost best actress to someone from Hello, Dolly. They also really liked Dear Evan Hansen. Based on this, I would say that the sows that will benefit the most (that aren't already sold out) are probably Miss Saigon and Bandstand. The Hello, Dolly performance really lost them some business, I would say. But time will tell.

 

"

Dolly won't lose any business with Bette still performing. But I can't be half as optimistic about Donna Murphy's Dolly. Rudin ego is something on the same level of the obnoxious Hamilton scalpers.

[The Other One]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 8:51am

I might not necessarily be the right poster for this thread.  I am not much of a musicals person, and I'm not especially bitter over the Tony results for the plays as all of the nominees were worthy.

That said, I preferred Barlett Sher's direction of "Oslo" to any of his co-nominees work.  Rebecca Taichman kept the somewhat overstuffed "Indecent" moving, moving and moving, but a leaner play might have allowed her a moment to slow down and let us feel along with the characters.  Sher, I think, took a wordy play that had the potential to become didactic and kept it pulsing with immediacy.  Did the fact that he is white, male and a previous Tony winner work against him?  In this day and age you have to wonder.  Clearly it did not work against the play.

I personally thought "Sweat" was the best of the four five plays nominated, but did think it suffered somewhat in that director Kate Whoriskey has an occasionally heavy-handed touch.  I am sorry it took home nothing.  Nottage's ability to write as a person of our times, and not as or for any particular demographic, is something I appreciate more and more with each play.  "A Doll's House Part 2" ran a close second in my opinion.  I wish it had won more, but I was thrilled that Laurie Metcalf was chosen over her stellar competitors.

The only musicals I saw all season (so far) were "Natasha, Pierre and The Great Comet of 1812" and "Sunday In The Park With George."  Had the latter been eligible, I believe Annaleigh Ashfored would have been nominated and that the show would have been a fourth Best Revival nominee.  "Natasha" deserved its many nominations, though I can't comment on any of its competitors so I will leave it at that.

"Bandstand" came off the best of the musicals represented.  "Dear Evan Hansen" appears worth seeing for its obviously passionate lead performance and "Come From Away" seems at the very least a worthy, artless (in a good, unaffected way) accomplishment.  The other musicals looked almost proudly uninteresting.  Eva Noblezada of "Miss Saigon" almost made me want to see her in this revival of a show I consider the worst hit in Broadway history.  But only almost.

[irishgator1]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 9:16am

bwayandstuff said: "I agree with the above posts regarding DEH. I was so underwhelmed after I saw it and thought it was so generic. Not to mention the whole "lie about everything and get people to like you and then your life will miraculously be changed forever and your anxiety will be healed" thing. There''s no doubt that Ben deserved that Tony. He is immensely talented and his performance is unreal.

My real problem with DEH is that Evan is a kid who has serious problems and they turned him into this comedic character. Everyone laughs at his ticks and his interactions but this kid has a mental illness. It just felt strange laughing at this person who has crippling social anxiety. It's kind of reminiscent of 13 Reasons Why, which a lot of people were all up in arms about earlier this year, yet no one is saying the same things about DEH as they were about 13 Reasons Why."

I felt this way too.  My best friend's son has anxiety and is on the spectrum, and while I think she (and he) could see a lot of her son in Evan, I did think about what it'd be like to be a mom of someone very similar to a character people are laughing at.

I've seen DEH twice (once in DC and then in Feb) and will be seeing Comet for the third time this weekend.  I was really disappointed Comet didn't win for direction, orchestration, costumes, and score.  I do remember walking out of DEH in DC telling my husband Ben Platt would win a Tony for that role.

 

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 9:27am

The Other One said: "Did the fact that he is white, male and a previous Tony winner work against him?  In this day and age you have to wonder.  

"

No. 

[froote]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 9:30am

Indeed it didn't. And if it did, Christoper Ashley's unjust win against the deserving female nominee more than made up for it

Updated On: 6/13/17 at 09:30 AM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 2:05pm

Then should we judge the strength of performance or the length of time an actor has spent on his role for a category titled "best PERFORMANCE by an actor in a musical"?

I was making an observation, not telling anyone what they should or should not do.  Judge however you like.  Personally, I thought Jon Jon was great both times I saw him (2003 & 2015).  I just think having played the same role for over 20 years is a very unique distinction.  

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 2:48pm

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/12/19/pop-psychology-onstage-in-dear-evan-hansen

This article is why I believe DEH doesn't deserve the book win.

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 6/13/17 at 2:50pm

Mister Matt said: "Then should we judge the strength of performance or the length of time an actor has spent on his role for a category titled "best PERFORMANCE by an actor in a musical"?

I was making an observation, not telling anyone what they should or should not do.  Judge however you like.  Personally, I thought Jon Jon was great both times I saw him (2003 & 2015).  I just think having played the same role for over 20 years is a very unique distinction.  

 

"

I believe that most people starting a sentence with "to be fair" intend to offer an explanation instead of just making an observation.