Cabaret 1966 version or 1998 revival - Page 3

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 2:57pm

I'm not disputing the path Joel Grey found to the center of his role or "judging" him (in any way) or saying his performance was not what the authors intend.

I'm saying that he allthatjazz misunderstood him entirely and misrepresented what he said.

What Joel Grey actually said (I looked it up) was "the character of the emcee was . . . so much of a double idea... Adolf Hitler-like in that he promises the audience a very good time . . . bread on every table. . . . They follow and they have a good time, and at the end he turns out to be something other than what we thought he was." (Ellipses are from the original article below.)

Not the the character of the Emcee "represented" Hitler, which Joel Grey did not (and would not ever) say.

The Georgetowner: Joel Grey Celebrates the 40th Anniversary of 'Cabaret' at the Smithsonian (photos)

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 3:26pm

Skip to 48:50. I couldn't find a clip with just the interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaffhYNAxek

Sorry, I didn't upload the link correctly on my last post.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 3:42pm

The longer interview you posted PJ does put it in a clearer context.

I still don't really buy the Mendes ending--as striking and effective as I think it is (which, this being theatre, is reason enough to keep it.) It's a great image, and makes its point, but if we see the Emcee as a character--a very cunning, manipulative character, I really don't think he'd end up in the concentration camps. But that's just the way I see him, I suppose.

"And I think we can all universally agree that it worked. "

Absolutely.

There used to be a much longer, great Ed Sullivan clip online from the original Cabaret with the second Sally I believe, but still Joel--it's too bad that like most Ed Sullivan musical clips it was removed. (I have a box of 13 or so videos of Ed Sullivan's musical performances I always intend to digitize...)

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 3:47pm

But I think if we zoom out and take the Goth view of the character, the world he represents certainly was destroyed. And if you remember the moment, he didn't have just one 'badge' on his uniform. There was the yellow star, the pink triangle and the black triangle (cannot, for the life of me, remember the others). So, even in the costuming, it wasn't meant to be literal...but a representation of all that died.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 4:09pm

If I remember correctly the yellow star symbolyzed being a jew, the pink triangle being gay and the black had something to do with prostitution or inmoral activities.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 4:10pm

Right, and that does work for me, in that production. What I disagree with is the argument that some have had on here (focusing on the triangle) that--look, even the Emcee ends up affected by it in the end because he's gay, which makes it too literal, and doesn't work for me. But I don't think that was the intention, as you point out.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 4:35pm

I think the emcee is a symbolyc character in all versions, the difference being that in the original production and the film he and the Kit Kat Club represented the rise of the Nazis and in the revival they represented the downfall of the people. From this perspective, with Joel's Emcee a villain and Alan's was a victim, the ending in the revival makes perfect sense. I love both versions but to me the latter will always be way more powerful.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 4:42pm

(Although, to be fair have you seen Prince's original?? Aside from the one or two award show clips? I mean I don't really feel fair to judge myself, even seeing a well filmed recording of the 1987 revival/restoration, though I was surprised and impressed with how modern the staging still seemed.)

One thing about the Mendes/Marshall is many of its defenders go on about how the Kit Kat Klub is much more authentic. I don't think the clubs mentioned in Berlin Stories would be quite like that--and I doubt Mendes did either since it's obviously stylized. It obviously works very well, but to claim it's authentic strikes me as wrong.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 4:53pm

Well the original production opened 29 years before I was born...so no.

I'm basing my opinion mostly on the film and what I've read about the original production.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 5:06pm

The whole authentic/inauthentic thing seems...a strange debate.

I think the point of the cabaret is that it's a stylized, debauched playground on which the artists make their case. So anyone who comes to it will bring whatever personal baggage they have. So what is divinely decadent in the 60's is inherently different in the 90's. So, of course, those of us living in the 90's will make the claim that this is more authentic. We have no way to know that it's true. But it does have a sort of emotional truth to it that makes it feel 'right.'

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 5:17pm

"I think the point of the cabaret is that it's a stylized, debauched playground on which the artists make their case. So anyone who comes to it will bring whatever personal baggage they have."

I totally agree with you SonofRobbieJ. Cabaret Is one of those few priveledged shows which could be anything you want them to. It all relies in the director's vision.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 6:07pm

Robbie--that's really well said, and I agree with it. I guess I was pointlessly arguing what I've read in other threads (not, so far in this one) when they defend the '98 revival over others--saying that for the first time *this* is what a real cabaret would have felt like. Your point too about having to change the stylization to have the same effect 40 years later is definitely valid (I suspect if we want to try to define a real Weimer era cabaret that Sally would perform at it would have probably fallen between the two.)

ATJ, didn't mean to sound condescending. Just that I think it's hard to really get a grasp of the original production just from clips (and the movie doesn't really help in that respect)

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 6:20pm

Eric, you didn't sound condescending. As a matter of fact I completely agree that it is impossible to fully understand a production without actually seeing it. Like I said my opinion regarding that particular production is based on my limited knowledge of it. And it is just that, an opinion.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 6:20pm

Eric, you didn't sound condescending. As a matter of fact I completely agree that it is impossible to fully understand a production without actually seeing it. Like I said my opinion regarding that particular production is based on my limited knowledge of it. And it is just that, an opinion.

[bk]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 8:21pm

These threads are always so amusing. Of course just about everyone here prefers the Mendes/Marshall version. Why? Because they didn't see the original. Pretty simple that. I saw both and for me there is no contest. The original was one of the most brilliantly theatrical experiences I will ever have - from direction, choreography, sets, lighting, to the brilliant cast. As much as I like the film, it doesn't compare for me, but they're really different beasts. I enjoyed the revival, but liked none of the changes and for me, again, no contest which was better. That is, I suppose, one of the disadvantages of being young :) One usually likes what one saw first, so for those who saw the Mendes first, what else are they going to say? Harold Prince was a visionary genius, and Cabaret was the beginning that would lead to musical theater being changed forever in his collaborations with Sondheim.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 8:29pm

1966 version. Killer cast and sad to see so.many songs and characters cut from the movie. I liked the movie a lot but also liked the original show and revival

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 8:33pm

Well, yeah. I think that's kinda been established by most--but it's definitely a valid point. Do you have any more specific memories about seeing the original? I'd love to hear them.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 3/4/13 at 10:11pm

^ Yeah, what Bruce said.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 3/7/13 at 7:38pm

Figured out my "Why Should I Wake Up?" problem... it becomes, in a re-orchestrated version, another "comment" song for the Emcee, on Cliff's "Don't Go" and Sally's "Maybe This Time."