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#51

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 12:26pm

"Well, if you want to get really technical and talk about history, Massachusetts was one of the first non-Southern colonies to enact an anti-miscegenation law. So a realistic production would not have a mixed-race couple as John and Elizabeth Proctor. But as others have surmised, this production is either utilizing color blind casting (in which race is not a factor) or a specific production concept in which Elizabeth Proctor's race is important."

Just because there is a law forbidding it doesn't mean people didn't live as a married couple. This happened in the Antebellum South as well. People lived away from society a created families. It was against the law for slaves to get married too but it happened. Massachusett's anti miscegenation law happened around 1692 meaning that there had to be reason prior to even have it be an issue. This was probably because of slave owners raping and getting their slaves pregnant or relationships between white and black people that the community and government didnt like.

Update: I misstated that the law was put in place in the 1700's, it was actually around 1692.

Updated On: 8/7/15 at 12:26 PM

#52

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 12:36pm

You are really stretching the parameters of the specific text being discussed to fit the argument you are trying to make. John and Elizabeth Proctor do not "live away from society." The fact that some free blacks owned slaves, that some whites had sex (raped) blacks, and that there were some examples of actual relationships between blacks and whites does not hold bearing on THE CRUCIBLE as a text. The fact that there were free blacks in Salem does not necessarily mean that they were integrated into the town's white society. What Ivo van Hove is attempting to do with this production is another story, but it doesn't change the fact that a traditional production almost certainly wouldn't cast actors of color in any role other than Tituba.

I think Okenedo will be brilliant, as I've said numerous times, and I am excited to see what Ivo van Hove's vision for this production is, and whether the non-traditional casting of a black actress as Elizabeth is merely a case of color-blind casting or integral to this specific production.

#53

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 12:46pm

"Am I the only one who found Tavi Gevinson's speaking voice incredibly...strange."

Not the only one at all...it's distracting. At least Mary is a relatively small part.

#54

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 1:07pm

LarryD2, the point I am making is situations are specific and that the possibilities shouldn't be limited by "this would never happen!" and the argument that because of the time period the casting of a black woman isn't realistic. I'll stop speaking on the subject because I have said enough… (sigh)

#55

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 1:14pm

Oh lord, I'm not looking forward to seeing Tavi onstage again. Let's hope Van Hove directs her to read her lines a bit more quietly than she did in This is Our Youth.

#56

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 2:20pm

"In a realistic, period-appropriate production of the show, perhaps colorblind casting might be seen as out of place.
But I highly doubt Van Hove will be doing a realistic, period-appropriate production. And if that's the case, then, frankly, as long as the actor is fantastic, who cares? Aside from morons, of course."

says the one who thought it was completely inappropriate to color blind cast Fiddler on the Roof

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#57

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 2:22pm

Yeah, you apparently didn't actually understand my post.

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#58

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 2:28pm

Not only that, you willfully misquote *my* posts about Fiddler, which can be found linked below, which were in response to some typically inane and vague posts from you about how the show needs to be "reinvented."

I never, ever said it's inappropriate to color-blind cast the show. In fact, I said:

"You don't NEED to interpolate other traditions into the staging for people to connect with it. Diverse casting, sure! But, frankly, what your suggestions don't serve the material. They serve yourself. And that's not what a good director is about."

Don't try "gotcha!" tactics with me, not when every thread you enter is littered with your ill-formed and ill-advised utterings.

Fiddler on the Roof Revival

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

Updated On: 8/7/15 at 02:28 PM

#59

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 3:20pm

You said "But, frankly, what your suggestions don't serve the material. They serve yourself. And thats not what a good director is about."

so tell me how a black Elizabeth Proctor is serving the material in The Crucible which takes place during colonial America where black people were slaves? John Proctor owns a slave himself.

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Updated On: 8/7/15 at 03:20 PM

#60

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 3:32pm

Since I have no idea what concepts are guiding Van Hove's direction of this production, and I have not SEEN this production, how can I comment on that?

Are you going to ignore the fact you entirely fabricated something you claimed I said?

Also: John Proctor does NOT own a slave. Tituba is the slave of Rev. Parris, and the only mentioned slave in the play.

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#61

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 3:41pm

well how could you comment on my color blind production of fiddler on the roof when you haven't seem the production and have no idea what concepts are guiding my direction? You didn't hesitate to say it didn't work. Its no different from a black Elizabeth Proctor

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Updated On: 8/7/15 at 03:41 PM

#62

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 3:49pm

You described your concept. It made no sense and had no grounds in anything other than your desire to "mess" (your word!) with a show.

Now: will you acknowledge you entirely fabricated something you claimed I said?

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#63

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 3:51pm

a description isn't ****. If you were to see it on stage, you would get it.

and you didn't say colorblind casting was inappropriate, but you still said that it didn't serve the material without even seeing my fresh new production

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#64

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 3:58pm

Great. That wasn't what you originally brought up. And these situations aren't at all comparable, and if you weren't such an aggressively dense and deluded narcissist, you'd see that.

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#65

Crucible Revival

Posted: 8/7/15 at 4:31pm

Kad, I think you need to read what you said before. You don't seem to have a problem with a black Elizabeth Proctor but a black Tevye doesnt serve the material to you? I know Fiddler is about religion and what not, but they BOTH do not make sense in the context of the play and these situations are absolutely comparable

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