Did Sondheim STEAL a song from Jonathan Larson??????

[dramagirl487]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 3:45pm

Youtube search Jonathan Larson's song "Sunday"
and look up Stephen Sondheim - Sunday in the Park with George's "Sunday"


portions of the lyrics are identical. the end is practically identical

the "bum bum bum" part is identical.


WHATS GOING ON?

(please note: that is a sarcastic post. I obviously KNOW he didn't steal it. i was just wondering the history behind it)
Updated On: 5/31/08 at 03:45 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 3:46pm

lmao
lmao
lmao


just

lmao

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 3:47pm

He didn't. Sondheim did it first.
Larson did it later as a tribute to Sondheim.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 3:47pm

oh

my

gah

[wicked_beast4]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 3:47pm

Woooww, are you that dense?

[dramagirl487]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 3:50pm

i didn't know X_X

lol sorry i didn't know the order of when the songs were written. my post was sarcastic, i knew there was some explanation behind it, i didn't think he actually STOLE the song. I guess sarcasm isn't obvious in writing.

thanks for the explanation. anyone have more details? its interesting

[masb19872]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 3:50pm

Yes, Sondheim stole the lyrics to a song written years later by Larson, cause he's psychic like that.

In seriousness, no, Sondheim wrote "Sunday" first, and Larson's version came a few years later as a tribute of sorts to Sondheim.

[dramagirl487]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 3:52pm

Larson was able to include that song in Tick..Tick...Boom? I wonder if he bought rights. I prefer Larson's version, my complaint about sondheim is many of his songs lack unique melody, often lacking significant melody at all, and it seems Larson added the boost of melody for me to love the song

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 3:55pm

my complaint about sondheim is many of his songs lack unique melody, often lacking significant melody at all, and it seems Larson added the boost of melody for me to love the song


- Lmao again. I am SURE Sondheim has never heard that complaint before!

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 3:56pm

And ps. Did your really just insinuate Sondheim's SUNDAY isn't a melodic song? Wow. One of his best melodies.
Updated On: 5/31/08 at 03:56 PM

[dramagirl487]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:01pm

Sunday is one of his more melodic, but many of them his songs have complex backups with short phrases (sweeney todd has a lot of these, and "finishing the hat")

his style does not have the smooth and obvious melodies like...Andrew Lloyd Webber, for example.

Into the Woods has good melody, Company doesn't have as many. Its one of his unique styles

many of the melodies he does have are very similar to eachother.

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:02pm

Aw man, I fell out of my chair! Thank you so much for your posts in this thread OP! Hahahaha!

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:03pm

"his style does not have the smooth and obvious melodies like...Andrew Lloyd Webber, for example."

That's a good thing to not compose like Webber. Anyway, you obviously haven't listen to his other shows because 'A Little Night Music' and 'Follies' prove he can write smooth and obvious melodies. It is more evident in 'Follies'.

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:05pm

Geek. Don't even bother trying to explain this to a 13 year old.

[theaterkid1015]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:06pm

I can't even come up with a witty response....I just can't.

[dramagirl487]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:06pm

clearly you guys don't agree with me. no need to be rude. most of my friend's don't agree with me, but my music teacher does.

i think the thing that makes sondheim's music recognizable is his unique patterns i mentioned above. For me, if i hear any song of his, even one i haven't heard before, i know instantly it's his.

I play violin and cello, both for about 10 years now. I do know a lot about music, i'm not speaking without any experience. if you don't agree with my assertions, thats fine.

please refrain from rude comments. i would like to hear your arguments though. so please explain

[Jon]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:07pm

Larson essentially turned Sondheim's harmonic structure upside down.

For those who know music theory, Sondheim's "Sunday" starts on a tonic (roman numeral "I") chord, moves to a subdominant ("IV") chord, then back to a tonic ("I")on the first phrase. Larson's version starts on the subdominant "IV" chord, goes to the tonic "I", then back to the subdominant "IV".

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:07pm

Haha ljay I know, I just couldn't resist. If they don't find out now, imagine the horrors that will ensue them when they ask a question like that to Sondheim himself!

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:09pm

Something seems wrong if someone with musical experience says SUNDAY (Sondheim's) doesn't have a melody.

[dramagirl487]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:10pm

To Jon, yes i know music theory, i picked up on Larson's transition, and to me that version flows more fluently than Sondheim's. Sondheim chooses to have a group of people song portions, and his lead to sing as small phrases, so i think his intention was for a less fluent song. But Larson's parody is a one-man kind of relflection, so the melody stayed more pronounced

[over_dramatic]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:11pm

actually, in the sheet music Larson's "Sunday" is described as "Sondheimian"...

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:14pm

"But Larson's parody is a one-man kind of relflection, so the melody stayed more pronounced"

It was more of an homage-parody than a parody.

Updated On: 5/31/08 at 04:14 PM

[TooDarnHot]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:15pm

I actually hate you. I don't even know who you are... but I hate you.


"clearly you guys don't agree with me. no need to be rude. most of my friend's don't agree with me, but my music teacher does. "


Is this your music teacher???






no, seriously. you ask to refrain from "rude comments" but it's just not possible when I read this thread.

- You don't know when SITPWG was written??? I mean, c'mon.

- Larson is dead (irrelevant, but still.)

- There was no "stealing" ... meant as a tribute, of sorts.

- I'm not a huge Sondheim freak but as a musician myself, I'm finding you to sound really stupid. Your arguments make no sense.

[BenKaye]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:18pm

I don't want to add to the "rude" comments, but, if your original post was an attempt at "sarcasm," then you obviously don't know what sarcasm is.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 5/31/08 at 4:25pm