Dimanche dans le Parc avec George

Forgive the pigeon French.

Apparently Jean-Luc Choplin, the director of the Théâtre du Châtelet in Paris , is planning a production of Sunday in the Park With George in the 2012-13 season. An official announcement will be made early in 2012.

This will be the third of Sondheim's musicals located in northern Europe to be staged by this theatre in as many years and I think its reception will prove particularly interesting due to its Paris location and French subject matter - the French not being particularly warm to musical theatre.

All they want are dancing girls.

"Offenbach, Messager, Audran, Planquette, Ganne, Lecocq, Hahn..."

I did, of course, mean the sort of musical theatre we come here to discuss.

If I've missed a significant percentage of threads about "Offenbach, Messager, Audran, Planquette, Ganne, Lecocq, Hahn..." then please post links - I can't recall having seen them.

the French not being particularly warm to anyone else's musical theatre.

I fixed it for you

I hope you'll let us know how it fares, mrcacou. I don't know how (or if) the French feel about American dramatizations of the post-Impressionists.

Last I heard, they were planning to do PACIFIC OVERTURES at some point.

"By those standards, ALNM and Sweeney have been big successes."

By what standards, Eric?

If a show is booked to play only a few weeks, and it plays out those weeks, how does that constitute a success?

"Offenbach, Messager, Audran, Planquette, Ganne, Lecocq, Hahn......"

I may be as big a fan of La belle Hélène as the next guy, but that's a crew of (at best) operetta composers you've got there.

Now, sure, what we call musical theatre grew out of operetta (as operetta grew out of opera, which was, they tell us, a bizarre attempt to recreate what Sophocles and pals once did). But just as operetta isn't opera, it also isn't musical theatre. Even a crowd-pleaser like The Merry Widow has a pretty dismal book that needs a lot of punching up and schtick to keep the audience's eyes open.

So kudos to you for your extensive knowledge of arcane names, but I would go with the OP on this one. The musical theatre that comes out of France is so dismal (including, in my opinion, Les Miserables and Miss Saigon), one can only wonder about the quality of the stuff that stays there.

newintown, the term "musical theater" can be an umbrella term that covers everything from Jerry Herman to Puccini to Sophocles (since Greek tragedy arose out of choral singing and always included a singing/dancing chorus).

You're right that in the U.S. we tend to use the term as shorthand for the Broadway-style mix of spoken lines and singing, but even there the lines get blurred. PHANTOM and LES MIZ are no less operettas than THE MERRY WIDOW. STREET SCENE and PORGY AND BESS are operas or just "musicals" largely depending on where they are performed, etc.

After Eight's use of the term was not only correct, but very much to the point. It's wrong to say the French don't create musical theater. What they don't do is create AMERICAN musicals, but why would they?

(ETA to sonofrobbie: it's fine to invent your own terms and define them, as you did, so the rest of us know what you mean. But to call someone an "asshole" because he doesn't use your narrow definitions for terms rather makes you the ass.)

Updated On: 11/22/11 at 02:42 PM

I don't care if After Eight uses my definition or not. And I don't object to After Eight's argument. I object to his Assholish tone that was clearly meant to put down the original poster whose intent in that post could not have been clearer.

As for looking like an ass, well...I've looked worse.

"I object to his Assholish tone that was clearly meant to put down the original poster"

For clarity, After Eight has carried an attitude problem towards me for several months since a difference of opinion on another thread; on that occasion a third party also intervened to my defence for which I was grateful.

Updated On: 11/22/11 at 03:22 PM

Fair enough, guys. I enjoy your posts and I didn't intend to start a quarrel with either one of you.

The terminology is a sticking point for me because as a retired theater educator, I've seen too many students miss the potential of non-American theater mostly because they couldn't recognize the kinship between other genres and the American musical comedy or musical play. Some of the influences from overseas are indirect--for example, African-American song and dance from African theater becomes spirituals and then minstrel shows before it ends up influencing the Broadway book musical--but the connections exist; so I don't want to inadvertently deny them by defining terms too narrowly.

THE LION KING is a great example, robbie, as is PACIFIC OVERTURES (whatever their faults) of what can be achieved when American artists realize that elements of other musical theater forms can be blended into American shows.

***

And just to get back on topic of French musical theater, I saw the stage version of Michel Legrand's UMBRELLAS OF CHERBOURG in Paris. Granted it was 30 years ago and I'm not the best witness since I didn't understand the language (I was given an English language synopsis at the box office), hadn't seen the film, and had never studied world theater at the time.

It was through-sung--like the film but unlike most American/British musicals in that day (EVITA had just opened in New York)--yet there was nothing about it that was so foreign to me as to make it incomprehensible. On the contrary, I very much enjoyed it.

Updated On: 11/22/11 at 04:08 PM

Gaveston,

I think a lot of the reason so many theatre students miss out on other concepts of theatre from around the world is because we will mostly be asked to perform within the western tradition of theatre. Back in college, I took an elective in Ha Hoe mask technique (from South Korea). We were some of the first westerners to explore this tradition. I thought, at first, it was base and silly. But the response to the final performance our class gave was an experience I'll never forget. It was primal...it was at the very root of storytelling. And it was thrilling. So I do sympathize with your feelings regarding terminology. Which is why I make the distinction between music theatre and musical theatre. I do think it's important to remember the artform that is widely recognized as 'the musical' has its roots in many other music theatre traditions.