Does Miss Saigon's poor showing on Broadway mean no future film?- Page 2

[KnewItWhenIWasInFron]

Posted: 8/8/17 at 4:22pm

If we're going to keep getting new threads about I show, I guess it bears repeating:

Miss Saigon's offensive racism is a bigger problem than its poor showing/limited run on Broadway this time out.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/8/17 at 4:27pm

KnewItWhenIWasInFron said: "If we're going to keep getting new threads about I show, I guess it bears repeating:

Miss Saigon's offensive racism is a bigger problem than its poor showing/limited run on Broadway this time out."

And which of those facts were not present in the actual war?

Get over yourself and stop turning every thread into that. Life in itself is offensive. Learn to accept it or prepare for a very unhappy life.

 

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/8/17 at 4:35pm

If we're going to keep getting new threads about I show, I guess it bears repeating:

Miss Saigon's offensive racism is a bigger problem than its poor showing/limited run on Broadway this time out.

Thank God.  I was afraid people were allowed to mention Miss Saigon without someone beating a dead horse.  You've saved us all.  Why don't you just save some time and copy and paste another thread into this one?  kthnx

[KnewItWhenIWasInFron]

Posted: 8/10/17 at 7:29pm

Mister Matt said: "If we're going to keep getting new threads about I show, I guess it bears repeating:

Miss Saigon's offensive racism is a bigger problem than its poor showing/limited run on Broadway this time out.

Thank God.  I was afraid people were allowed to mention Miss Saigon without someone beating a dead horse.  You've saved us all.  Why don't you just save some time and copy and paste another thread into this one?  kthnx

 

"

Will do. The fact that the show perpetuates offensive and damaging stereotypes should, in fact, be mentioned every time the show is.

[chernjam]

Posted: 8/10/17 at 10:15pm

IMO - Schonberg-Boubil's works lose their impact with repeated hearing/viewings.  First time I saw Les Miz (original production in NY) I really loved it.  Got the CD's -- enjoyed listening to it.  2nd time I saw it on Broadway, I fell asleep... and now I really can't stand to listen to any of the music from it.  

 

The same was true of Miss Saigon.  I actually had gotten the CD's for it before seeing it and enjoyed much of it (although it did seem very reminiscent of Les Miz) and was excited to see it onstage.  After I had though, I never really had any interest in it again.  

Not quite sure why... and I don't mean this to disrespect the mega-fans of this show.  

While it's had a pretty successful run in the UK revival and on tour in the UK - I would think the film they made of that production would be as far as they go in terms of filming this.  Particularly since this run on broadway - while always billed as a limited run - I'm sure Cameron was hoping that they could announce "NOW EXTENDED" because it was selling out so well.  It just never seemed to catch fire.  Perhaps the revival was too soon?  Or it came in during a crazy busy year (at the height of it's busiest time) - Thinking back to last summer when Cats opened and it really had a great run since it was the only "new" thing at the time.  

Speaking of which - it kind of shocks me that Cats out-performs Miss Saigon (another show I cant stand)

[JayElle]

Posted: 8/10/17 at 11:44pm

I haven't seen M.S. since it first came out decades ago.  Refresh my memory.  Is this racism by the soldiers against the Vietnamese during the war?

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/11/17 at 4:13am

KnewItWhenIWasInFron said: "
Will do. The fact that the show perpetuates offensive and damaging stereotypes should, in fact, be mentioned every time the show is."

That Americans are confused wimps and Asian women are strong lionesses and heroines?

That's the beauty of this show. Showing all sides. It really challenges opinions.

Even though it's perfect at doing that, Miss Saigon wasn't designed to be a political play. It's a blockbuster West End and Broadway musical, which is an extremely beautiful and touching experience. Iconic songs and inventive lyrics make this a high quality piece of theatre, which arguably possesses the power to transport and move the audience beyond any other musical.

Also, the fact that thousands of girls worked in a bar in that time in Vietnam is not racism.

Updated On: 8/11/17 at 04:13 AM

[Plannietink08]

Posted: 8/11/17 at 4:45am

After seeing Dunkirk I'd love to see Christopher Nolan direct Miss Saigon. His epic sweeping shots that are an absolute spectacle but somehow still manage to feel intimate would be great for the screen adaption of MS.

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/11/17 at 7:22am

Sounds interesting.

Has anyone seen the first 20 minutes of the film Kong: Skull Island?

It's also about the Vietnam war and there are also scenes in Ho Chi Minh. The camerawork is out of this world in those scenes. There are shots of the sunset, the bars, helicopters, for example from above, where you see 3 helicopters with the rotors turning synchronously in slow motion, which was quite impressive. It was just very beautiful and almost looked like a Miss Saigon movie.

I was almost waiting for the wonderful music to start. If they embrace the magic of the artform this could be something very special.

[The Elf Who Knits]

Posted: 8/11/17 at 8:17am

I hope I'm wrong about this but I suspect a through sung musical about the Vietnam War will be just too frightening a prospect for a studio. They will assume an audience won't be remotely interested in it, or won't get it, or will hate it on the basis that a Vietnam movie where everyone's singing is trivialising or disrespecting the war. 

If a script gets written where it's actually through sung as per the libretto, and a director wants to do it that way, I think they'll have a massive fight on their hands. 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/11/17 at 8:28am

I think Miss Saigon's focus is not the war but many other, human related things and relations which lend itself perfectly for sung through storytelling.

As long as it's not too literal, like the les Mis film. I'm thinking playing more with the illusion of sung thoughts and elaborate cinematography and pre-recorded tracks. More like an impressive videoclip. That works better than the literal approach because the material per definition is not.

One of the most important things they need to keep in mind is that it has to feel natural for the audience. Forcing them to switch between dialogue and song all the time, sometimes even in 1 line (like Les Mis), is constantly throwing them out of the film. I already notice this in the Broadway version of the show now, where in the confrontation Ellen speaks 3 words and then sings the 4th. That feels weird and unnatural. While just gently singing all 4 words with natural intention feels very organic.
 

Updated On: 8/11/17 at 08:28 AM

[lotiloti]

Posted: 8/11/17 at 8:33am

Dancingthrulife2 said: "evic said: "And it is so anti American. 

 

"

Anti-American? Does "American-ness" stand for bigotry, xenophobia, sexism, racism, and foreign interference?

 

These days, it would seem so.

 

[Lot666]

Posted: 8/11/17 at 9:10am

The Elf Who Knits said: "I hope I'm wrong about this but I suspect a through sung musical about the Vietnam War will be just too frightening a prospect for a studio. They will assume an audience won't be remotely interested in it, or won't get it, or will hate it on the basis that a Vietnam movie where everyone's singing is trivialising or disrespecting the war. 

If a script gets written where it's actually through sung as per the libretto, and a director wants to do it that way, I think they'll have a massive fight on their hands."

Les Miserables is a sung-through musical about a civil war, where nearly everyone (including a small child) dies, and they made it into a movie.

[Lot666]

Posted: 8/11/17 at 9:20am

Dave28282 said: "I think Miss Saigon's focus is not the war but many other, human related things and relations which lend itself perfectly for sung through storytelling."

Yep, similar to Come From Away, which some people tried to dismiss as "a show about 9/11". In both shows, the respective atrocities (i.e., war and a terrorist attack) are not the plot, but rather plot devices to bring the characters together and allow their relationships to play out.

Dave28282 said: "One of the most important things they need to keep in mind is that it has to feel natural for the audience. Forcing them to switch between dialogue and song all the time, sometimes even in 1 line (like Les Mis), is constantly throwing them out of the film. I already notice this in the Broadway version of the show now, where in the confrontation Ellen speaks 3 words and then sings the 4th. That feels weird and unnatural. While just gently singing all 4 words with natural intention feels very organic."

I HATE this, and I don't understand why they do it. I wanted to stand up and shout, "JUST SING THE DAMN LYRICS!". While I really enjoyed Miss Saigon overall, that inexplicable now-I'm-singing, now-I'm-talking, I-can't-make-up-my-mind approach is a major detraction for a show that would otherwise be quite good.

[The Elf Who Knits]

Posted: 8/11/17 at 10:59am

@Lot666 Of course but Les Mis is safely set in The Olden Days, and Vietnam is a much more immediate cultural touchstone/sore point for an American audience. I would desperately love a Miss Saigon movie and hope it does happen but like I say I think a big studio could get twitchy at the thought of a "Vietnam War musical movie", and mistakenly think that that taking as much singing out as possible will improve it. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 8/11/17 at 11:12am

The Elf Who Knits said: "@Lot666 Of course but Les Mis is safely set in The Olden Days, and Vietnam is a much more immediate cultural touchstone/sore point for an American audience. I would desperately love a Miss Saigon movie and hope it does happen but like I say I think a big studio could get twitchy at the thought of a "Vietnam War musical movie", and mistakenly think that that taking as much singing out as possible will improve it."

I agree about the "taking as much singing out as possible will improve it" issue, as that seems to be the "modern" way to do musicals - have the cast speak half the lines instead of actually singing. For a long time, I disliked musicals because it always (as Andrew Lloyd Webber once said) "seemed daft to have someone walk into a room and burst into song". Most of his musicals avoid that successfully by virtue of their sung-through nature, which works a lot better for me; if the characters just sing the whole time, I have less suspension-of-disbelief challenges. Unfortunately, Miss Saigon now has numerous characters oscillating between talking and singing with every other line in some scenes.

Have I gotten off topic? Sorry. 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 8/12/17 at 5:56am

I completely agree. In the Les Mis film where Hugh Jackman speaks 4 words: "now.....come on......ladies......settle........and then sings the 5th word with a long vibrato...dooooooooooooooooown" just kicked me out of the film and made audience members laugh.

You can't expect the audience to constantly follow the switch like that in every line or word. It's not a tennis game between a spoken word and a sung word.

In every other filmed performance of that scene I have seen, the Valjean makes it very organic and filmic, singing, "Now, come on ladies, settle down", gently sung, with the last word short. The audience doesn't even think about the language of singing because they already embraced it. Because it feels natural this way.

I am completely baffled as to why any director (Les Mis film and Miss saigon Broadway now) could think that doing that makes the result more natural or raw in any way, shape or form. It makes it as unnatural as can be.