re Fun Home. I can't imagine Shuffle beating it. Although people here and elsewhere obviously enjoy the show, it doesn't have anywhere near the heft of Fun Home. And while it would certainly have won the choreo award, it has a book that is worthy of a C+ overall, no music (as a new musical it would have to be labelled a jukebox musical) and a critical reception that is middling. I stand by what I said earlier which is that no one is doing their best work here.
Anyone who thinks Shuffle Along has a chance is smoking dope...and very good stuff at that. The last show I can think of that might have had a chance against it is...I am not sure that I can think of one, maybe Les Mis or A Chorus Line. I don't think Sweeney Todd would have stood a chance, if for no other reason that commercial appeal.
It is revolutionary, it is fabulously entertaining, it is a phenomenal success...people I know who know NOTHING about the theatre have expressed interest in seeing it.
My biggest concern re Hamilton is that it will win / get nominated in categories that it really doesn't deserve to, just because of the juggernaut, e.g., Phillippa Soo should be in featured...as lead, she should not get nominated, but probably will, knocking out someone who has a much larger role and does a great job with it. Will it win for costumes, sets, choreography, maybe orchestrations, lighting...all of which have very strong competition. I suspect Shuffle will win choreography and costumes, and maybe She Loves Me sets, but they could fall under the rush to honor Hamilton in a huge way. It is an incredible show, but that doesn't mean it deserves to win in every category.
I actually have a feeling that Soo might not be nominated.
And I don't know if I believe ANY show will ever be so perfect that it should win every category for which it is nominated.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
Phillipa should not be in featured with Renee who has far, far less to do than her. She is the lead actress in Hamilton and although she shouldn't win, she is absolutely deserving of a nomination.
Anyway, Hamilton will win best musical. It would be almost comical if it didn't. I'm seeing a lot of people saying 'maybe Tony voters will want to spread the love/not award Hamilton everything.' This is all well and good and I don't think Hamilton will win everything (leading actress and the technical awards may well all go to others), but how are people expecting Tony voters to agree with others on which categories to share the wealth? It's not like they can all have a big discussion and come to the conclusion that they should all vote Shuffle Along for best musical so that Hamilton doesn't win everything. These things are done in secret, are they not? And there is little chance that they're all going to have the same thoughts for voting against Hamilton in the same category. Plus I genuinely think a lot of people would look down on the Tonys if anything other than Hamilton won Best Musical. Shuffle Along is a very accomplished piece, but it is not without flaws (that the positive reviews pointed out). Hamilton is incredibly polished and almost perfectly put together in a lot of peoples eyes. Compare Brantley's review for Hamilton with his review for Shuffle Along.
If Hamilton did not win Best Musical it would surely be the biggest upset in Tony history. I just can't imagine it happening. Perhaps I'd enjoy seeing it happening if only to witness the response on this forum.
Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.
Are people serious about this or is this just making up imaginary situations for the hell of it? Hamilton is winning best musical. Stop with all these "Waitress might beat it," or "Shuffle along might beat it" threads.
qolbinau said: "If Hamilton did not win Best Musical it would surely be the biggest upset in Tony history. I just can't imagine it happening. Perhaps I'd enjoy seeing it happening if only to witness the response on this forum.
"
Calling Hamilton if it didn't win the big award the biggest upset in Tony history is a huge overstatement. Keep in mind great shows such as Gypsy, Into the Woods, West Side Story, Sunday in the Park With George, Chicago, Urinetown, and many others have lost. To say that Hamilton is so good that if it lost it would be devastating is the main reason why some people are sick of it, and that is why I created this thread. There are people who are sick and tired of Hamilton being praised at this point, and I want to see different opinions than "Hamilton is going to win every single award so let's call it "The HamilTonys"
Randomlink1 said: There are people who are sick and tired of Hamilton being praised at this point, and I want to see different opinions than "Hamilton is going to win every single award so let's call it "The HamilTonys"
"
I don't think Hamilton will win every award but Shuffle along is not going to win best musical. Hamilton won the Pulitzer and MacArthur genius award for goodness sake. I can't remember the last time a musical got this much hype and mainstream attention. I get being tired of Hamilton but it's definitely going to win. This thread seems naive.
Randomlink1 said: "Calling Hamilton if it didn't win the big award the biggest upset in Tony history is a huge overstatement. Keep in mind great shows such as Gypsy, Into the Woods, West Side Story, Sunday in the Park With George, Chicago, Urinetown, and many others have lost. To say that Hamilton is so good that if it lost it would be devastating is the main reason why some people are sick of it, and that is why I created this thread. There are people who are sick and tired of Hamilton being praised at this point, and I want to see different opinions than "Hamilton is going to win every single award so let's call it "The HamilTonys"
The difference is, for the most part, those shows lost to shows that were considered equally as good, or almost as good. (Although some of the opinions of the shows that won have changed over time). They lost to shows like The Sound of Music, A Chorus Line and The Music Man. And not all of the shows you listed were as loved then as they are today. For example, West Side Story only became as popular as it is now when the movie came out.
Although there are certainly other great shows on Broadway this season, there is no new musical that is considered to be as good as Hamilton by most people.
You can be sick of it if you want but that that doesn't mean that it's not going to win best musical. It absolutely will. It wont win every single award so there's no need to be quite so bitter. The only ones it's pretty much guaranteed to win are best musical, score and book. But to try and state that it will somehow lose those 3 is just silly at this point.
aaaaaa15 said: "uncageg said: "I would not look down on the Tonys if HAMILTON did not win Best Musical."
I didn't say everyone would but many certainly would."
I know you didn't. Just saying I would not be upset.
The last "upset" I can think of was in the 2004 season when Avenue Q won. I think a lot of people thought it was going to be WICKED or CAROLINE right up to just before the ceremony.
Randomlink1 said: "qolbinau said: "If Hamilton did not win Best Musical it would surely be the biggest upset in Tony history. I just can't imagine it happening. Perhaps I'd enjoy seeing it happening if only to witness the response on this forum.
"
Calling Hamilton if it didn't win the big award the biggest upset in Tony history is a huge overstatement. Keep in mind great shows such as Gypsy, Into the Woods, West Side Story, Sunday in the Park With George, Chicago, Urinetown, and many others have lost. To say that Hamilton is so good that if it lost it would be devastating is the main reason why some people are sick of it, and that is why I created this thread. There are people who are sick and tired of Hamilton being praised at this point, and I want to see different opinions than "Hamilton is going to win every single award so let's call it "The HamilTonys"
"
In addition to the point someone made earlier (i.e., look at the shows they lost to), my understanding is that many of the shows you have listed (e.g., West Side Story; Chicago; Gypsy) gained more respect over time. I don't know if any of the shows you have listed had the hype Hamilton had at this point in time (they might have, correct me if I'm wrong).
Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.
There are people who are sick and tired of Hamilton being praised at this point, and I want to see different opinions than "Hamilton is going to win every single award so let's call it "The HamilTonys"
I've never understood this sort of pointless contrarianism. You haven't even seen it, so you don't actually know if the praise is justified. Even if you were in the minority of people who didn't like it, it's futile at this point to pretend the show isn't admired and beloved by the overwhelming majority of people who have seen it. It would undermine the entire point of awards to give the Tony to a lesser musical just because some people are tired of hearing about Hamilton. Or even because some people who've actually seen the show don't like it. Nothing pleases everyone.
qolbinau said: " In addition to the point someone made earlier (i.e., look at the shows they lost to), my understanding is that many of the shows you have listed (e.g., West Side Story; Chicago; Gypsy) gained momentum/more respect over time. I don't know if any of the shows you have listed had the hype Hamilton had at this point in time (they might have, correct me if I'm wrong).
"
This is definitely true. Chicago received mixed reviews when it first opened and only ran for less than a year. The revival and movie greatly helped Chicago. Even West Side story, although successful, was greatly helped by the movie to receive the reputation it has now. Gypsy's reputation as one of the best musicals has built over time.
The original Chicago ran for 936 performances, which was more than two years. While it had its detractors who didn't appreciate the show's cynicism, I also wouldn't say it earned mixed reviews. It had lots of champions. It just was overshadowed by A Chorus Line that year, which was a phenomenon.
Begin at the beginning and go on till you come to the end: then stop.
Smaxie said: "The original Chicago ran for 936 performances, which was more than two years. While it had its detractors who didn't appreciate the show's cynicism, I also wouldn't say it earned mixed reviews. It had lots of champions. It just was overshadowed by A Chorus Line that year, which was a phenomenon.
"
Yeah you're right I confused it with something else. It ran for longer than that but it did receive mixed reviews. Although many people like it, some people at the time didn't like the breaking the fourth wall style the show and thought it was too cynical. And of course it was greatly overshadowed by The chorus line. So i don't get how it's a huge upset that it didn't win Best Musical Like the OP said.
Broadway Forever2 said: "Smaxie said: "The original Chicago ran for 936 performances, which was more than two years. While it had its detractors who didn't appreciate the show's cynicism, I also wouldn't say it earned mixed reviews. It had lots of champions. It just was overshadowed by A Chorus Line that year, which was a phenomenon.
" I
I'm not saing it was a huge upset. I'm just saying good shows have lost the tony but it wasn't an upset overall. Yeah you're right I confused it with something else. It ran for longer than that but it did receive mixed reviews. Although many people like it, some people at the time didn't like the breaking the fourth wall style the show and thought it was too cynical. And of course it was greatly overshadowed by The chorus line. So i don't get how it's a huge upset that it didn't win Best Musical Like the OP said.
Right, but I actually do agree with qolbinau that if Hamilton lost best musical it would be the biggest upset in Tony history, especially as it has no real strong competition. I'm willing to be proven wrong if someone can name another that had as much critical acclaim as Hamilton and no strong competition but didn't win.
Yeah but your examples you gave of upsets wouldn't really be considered upsets at the time. Like Gypsy lost to the Sound of Music which to this day is widely considered one of the most classic musicals of all time and Fiorello which won the Pulitzer. I don't think it was a huge favorite to win at the time. into the woods (which I actually hate) lost to Phantom of the opera, etc. I do agree it would probably one of the biggest upsets if Hamilton lost. I don't think the Tony's are the "Hamiltony's" or whatever and I'm looking forward to the performances and the other awards but I there is practically 0 chance it loses best musical.
It's just seems people are trying to be contrarian just for the sake of it.
