#51
Posted: 8/20/10 at 3:57pm
I'm guessing many people here will disagree with me, but wouldn't it be interesting to see an African-American woman play Nellie in "South Pacific"?
Ethnic people in non-ethnic roles — Page 3
#52
Posted: 8/20/10 at 4:10pm
How are some of you classifying Ethnic people in non-ethnic roles?
Are you referring to someone who is of an ethnic background and has a darker complexion playing a traditional caucasian role or just someone of an ethnic background who, regardless of the color of his/her complexion is playing a traditional caucasian role?
Example: Raul Esparza, who is Hispanic always gets cast in traditional caucasian roles. Examples: Chitty, Chitty Bang, Bang and Company and no one has a problem with it.
Now, would a Hispanic actor with a darker complexion be accepted in those same roles?
Are you referring to someone who is of an ethnic background and has a darker complexion playing a traditional caucasian role or just someone of an ethnic background who, regardless of the color of his/her complexion is playing a traditional caucasian role?
Example: Raul Esparza, who is Hispanic always gets cast in traditional caucasian roles. Examples: Chitty, Chitty Bang, Bang and Company and no one has a problem with it.
Now, would a Hispanic actor with a darker complexion be accepted in those same roles?
#53
Posted: 8/20/10 at 4:38pm
A Black Nellie would only work if Emile was black but had white kids. Even then it is iffy.
#54
Posted: 8/20/10 at 4:47pm
I disagree. I think it could work. Nellie truly doesn't believe she's racist at all. It's not until the end of the 1st act when she meets Emile's half-Polynesian children that she starts to realize that she's prejudiced. I personally don't think Nellie's the kind of character who has a problem with anyone who's not her color. I think she just has a problem with people of THAT color, probably because of the war. Polynesians look an awful lot like Japanese, especially to a "little hick" from Little Rock, Arkansas.
#55
Posted: 8/20/10 at 5:17pm
If race is not an important issue to the plot of the show, then generally speaking, it makes no difference. Color blind casting is fine. The Damn Yankees example listed above is certainly an exception, as they are really the same person.
If race is a major plot point, like in South Pacific, or Ragtime, then obviously you are bound to certain characters being of a certain race, otherwise you lose the integrity of the story.
If race is a major plot point, like in South Pacific, or Ragtime, then obviously you are bound to certain characters being of a certain race, otherwise you lose the integrity of the story.
#56
Posted: 8/20/10 at 7:08pm
Oh my God. Not this discussion again.
Show business is the only (legal) profession where what a job applicant looks like (race, size, age,--everythng) actually DOES matter. And that is not wrong. It's just the way it is.
P.S.--no one with a brain is going to think you're racist because you feel that an actor is not right for a role due to their race.
Show business is the only (legal) profession where what a job applicant looks like (race, size, age,--everythng) actually DOES matter. And that is not wrong. It's just the way it is.
P.S.--no one with a brain is going to think you're racist because you feel that an actor is not right for a role due to their race.
#57
Posted: 8/20/10 at 7:39pm
re: Black Nellie, Since there was segregation of the military at the time in WWII, wouldn't that include the nurses?
#58
Posted: 8/20/10 at 8:52pm
P.S.--no one with a brain is going to think you're racist because you feel that an actor is not right for a role due to their race.
No. I'm pretty sure "so and so is not good for this role solely because they're Asian" is racist.
The conversation gets a little deeper when we're discussing shows where race is an important theme, or where the character was a real person. But there are many roles where, regardless of who played it first, you don't need to strictly cast a white person every single time.
No. I'm pretty sure "so and so is not good for this role solely because they're Asian" is racist.
The conversation gets a little deeper when we're discussing shows where race is an important theme, or where the character was a real person. But there are many roles where, regardless of who played it first, you don't need to strictly cast a white person every single time.
#60
Posted: 8/21/10 at 12:12am
It only raises these eyebrows when they mean well and do it for the sake of diversity, but it ends up looking forced or really awkward. In those situations, it's better to lay off if it's only going to cause unwanted distraction and comes off too obvious.
Otherwise, I don't give a hoot. This is theater, where we suspend disbelief and allow ourselves to interpret instead of taking everything at face value.
So cardboard trees and painted seas will do, or even just something that suggests it.
Otherwise, I don't give a hoot. This is theater, where we suspend disbelief and allow ourselves to interpret instead of taking everything at face value.
So cardboard trees and painted seas will do, or even just something that suggests it.
Recreation of original John Cameron orchestration to "On My Own" by yours truly. Click player below to hear.
#61
Posted: 8/21/10 at 1:21am
My personal opinion is that there is no issue with color-blink casting except in instances of historical accuracy or contextual logic.
An example would be an African-American actor playing Rutledge in 1776, contextually and historically it would be completely implausible.
Chicago is a production that has managed to side step historical accuracy rather smoothly, if you really think about it an extremely high priced hot shot attorney in the 1920's would most likely not be a young African-American man.
An example would be an African-American actor playing Rutledge in 1776, contextually and historically it would be completely implausible.
Chicago is a production that has managed to side step historical accuracy rather smoothly, if you really think about it an extremely high priced hot shot attorney in the 1920's would most likely not be a young African-American man.
"Grease," the fourth revival of the season, is the worst show in the history of theater and represents an unparalleled assault on Western civilization and its values. - Michael Reidel
#62
Posted: 8/21/10 at 1:31pm
Now here's a hypothetical.
How would you feel about a production of RENT in which ethnicities were jumbled up?
There have always been "racial outlines" for the characters based solely on casting and original precedents, not really taking into account the characters themselves, who (other than the fact that Mimi Marquez is a little bit Hispanic, whatever that really means) have no clear ethnic backgrounds. So we always get white Mark, black Collins, black Benny, white Roger, Asian Alexi Darling, etc.
If all of those were shaken up, would the show still work? It's not about race at all, but its racial build has become somewhat famous.
How would you feel about a production of RENT in which ethnicities were jumbled up?
There have always been "racial outlines" for the characters based solely on casting and original precedents, not really taking into account the characters themselves, who (other than the fact that Mimi Marquez is a little bit Hispanic, whatever that really means) have no clear ethnic backgrounds. So we always get white Mark, black Collins, black Benny, white Roger, Asian Alexi Darling, etc.
If all of those were shaken up, would the show still work? It's not about race at all, but its racial build has become somewhat famous.
#63
Posted: 8/21/10 at 1:39pm
It really does depend on the role. Some roles do allow for "color-blind" casting. But some don't. As I said, that's just the way it is.
#64
Posted: 8/21/10 at 3:43pm
There's a fine production of DAMN YANKEES playing out here on Long Island right now. The gifted African American actor, Andre De Shields is playing Applegate to great success--and no one is questioning the casting.
"Long live God!" (GODSPELL)
#65
Posted: 8/21/10 at 6:19pm
I'm taking into account that the original poster of thread had trouble titling it , but I must say I really find the title offensive.
What is a non-ethnic role?
As far as I can see everyone has an ethnicity. Just as everyone has a speaking accent.
I know living in euro-centered world this is hard for some white people to understand, but white people aren't the "pure" example of what it means to look like a human.
So judging by the title of this thread:
non-ethnic = white
ethnic = anything other than white.
How sad it is that the vast majority of the human being on this planet are considered "ethnic" while a small minority are the "norm".
As for the subject at hand:
Drama is about conflict, should the conflict be racially based then casting race specific actors is called for.
Example: It would undermine the conflict of GONE WITH THE WIND by casting a black Scarlet O'Hara.
But you could easily cast a black girl in the role of Annie in ANNIE because the conflict that keeps the drama going in the world of that play has nothing to with race.
That said, you have to take into account the audience imagination or lack thereof.
One of the remarkable things about Audra McDonald is her talent is such that audience doesn't see a black women playing a white role, they see the character.
What is a non-ethnic role?
As far as I can see everyone has an ethnicity. Just as everyone has a speaking accent.
I know living in euro-centered world this is hard for some white people to understand, but white people aren't the "pure" example of what it means to look like a human.
So judging by the title of this thread:
non-ethnic = white
ethnic = anything other than white.
How sad it is that the vast majority of the human being on this planet are considered "ethnic" while a small minority are the "norm".
As for the subject at hand:
Drama is about conflict, should the conflict be racially based then casting race specific actors is called for.
Example: It would undermine the conflict of GONE WITH THE WIND by casting a black Scarlet O'Hara.
But you could easily cast a black girl in the role of Annie in ANNIE because the conflict that keeps the drama going in the world of that play has nothing to with race.
That said, you have to take into account the audience imagination or lack thereof.
One of the remarkable things about Audra McDonald is her talent is such that audience doesn't see a black women playing a white role, they see the character.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt
#66
Posted: 8/21/10 at 9:11pm
Okay this was driving me crazy:
The reference somebody made to Saycon Sengbloh as Elphaba. We do realize that this character is NOT white, that entire SHOW practically revolved her not being white, black, asian, hispanic, but GREEN. Casting a black woman in this role is not "colorblind" simply because a white woman originated the role, and therefore we think only white women should play it. As long as you can be painted green (which I'm pretty sure is everyone!), this role has no "ethnicity" and the same goes for her father.
To me, at least, colorblind casting means casting someone whose skin color clearly defies the situation, but they are cast anyway. i.e. A black man as an inspector in early 19th century France. Highly unlikely a reality, but acceptable on stage.
Also, the "hispanic" issue. Casting someone like Phylicia Rashad or Sally Murphy in generically hispanic roles is totally plausible because people from countries of Spanish-speaking origin do, indeed, look like that! And in Sally Murphy's case, especially if we're talking European Spanish! Also, hispanic people--Raúl Esparza (Cuban) and Eden Espinosa (Mexican) for example--can look as Caucasian as anyone. So, it truly is not an issue of somebody's actual ethinicity, but indeed, what they look like. Jordin Sparks is not latina at all, but we buy her in In the Heights because she is bi-racial and "looks hispanic."
Lastly, colorblind casting of RENT. I saw an all-white production of RENT once, and the only thing that really made me twitch was when Joanne's mother said "Tell her those un-wed mothers in Harlem need her legal help, too," and Joanne was as waspy-looking as Reese Witherspoon. Truthfully, there is an implied race for each role more or less written in. One gets the impression that Mimi's family have been Loisaida for decades, Mark Cohen from Scarsdale certainly isn't a black boy, and in reality, the likelihood of Maureen Johnson from Hicksville being anything other than a brassy Jewish or Italian girl is slim. The story does work without sticking to the the originals, but the racial precedents do add a flavor of who these people are and where in the world we are to the show.
The reference somebody made to Saycon Sengbloh as Elphaba. We do realize that this character is NOT white, that entire SHOW practically revolved her not being white, black, asian, hispanic, but GREEN. Casting a black woman in this role is not "colorblind" simply because a white woman originated the role, and therefore we think only white women should play it. As long as you can be painted green (which I'm pretty sure is everyone!), this role has no "ethnicity" and the same goes for her father.
To me, at least, colorblind casting means casting someone whose skin color clearly defies the situation, but they are cast anyway. i.e. A black man as an inspector in early 19th century France. Highly unlikely a reality, but acceptable on stage.
Also, the "hispanic" issue. Casting someone like Phylicia Rashad or Sally Murphy in generically hispanic roles is totally plausible because people from countries of Spanish-speaking origin do, indeed, look like that! And in Sally Murphy's case, especially if we're talking European Spanish! Also, hispanic people--Raúl Esparza (Cuban) and Eden Espinosa (Mexican) for example--can look as Caucasian as anyone. So, it truly is not an issue of somebody's actual ethinicity, but indeed, what they look like. Jordin Sparks is not latina at all, but we buy her in In the Heights because she is bi-racial and "looks hispanic."
Lastly, colorblind casting of RENT. I saw an all-white production of RENT once, and the only thing that really made me twitch was when Joanne's mother said "Tell her those un-wed mothers in Harlem need her legal help, too," and Joanne was as waspy-looking as Reese Witherspoon. Truthfully, there is an implied race for each role more or less written in. One gets the impression that Mimi's family have been Loisaida for decades, Mark Cohen from Scarsdale certainly isn't a black boy, and in reality, the likelihood of Maureen Johnson from Hicksville being anything other than a brassy Jewish or Italian girl is slim. The story does work without sticking to the the originals, but the racial precedents do add a flavor of who these people are and where in the world we are to the show.
#67
Posted: 8/21/10 at 10:20pm
Speaking of non-traditional casting in Rent, there was local community production semi- recently where Maureen was a blonde, Collins was White/Hispanic and overweight, Angel was Black/Hispanic and Roger was bald.
Here are some pictures
http://www.dramagroup.org/archival-details1.asp?showId=136
Here are some pictures
http://www.dramagroup.org/archival-details1.asp?showId=136
#68
Posted: 8/22/10 at 12:12am
^^^
Because that's what this thread is really about.
I usually don't think there's an issue with casting people of color in white roles because for characters that are written as white or traditionally played as white, their perceived whiteness has usually nothing to do with their character, so it's usually not a big deal.
Because that's what this thread is really about.
I usually don't think there's an issue with casting people of color in white roles because for characters that are written as white or traditionally played as white, their perceived whiteness has usually nothing to do with their character, so it's usually not a big deal.
I'm not a gay stereotype. I'm a coincidence.
#69
Posted: 8/22/10 at 11:59am
White people are 'ethnic' too
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt
#70
Posted: 8/22/10 at 3:12pm
The only reason I mentioned it was because everyone was talking about non-traditional Rent casting. If you read the above posts people and talking about casts they saw. I was just giving an visual ofa somewhat non traditional Rent cast.
#71
Posted: 8/22/10 at 3:13pm
In the Chicago area, TV news reporters use the term "white ethnic" as a politically correct way to describe the Polish/Slavic/Lituanian/Russian etc. communities, as in "Rod Blagojevich always got the white ethnic vote."
#72
Posted: 8/22/10 at 3:21pm
Yes! When I heard it the first time I was thinking "WTF Does that mean?
I seem to remember a Youtube video of the final scene of Dreamgirls performed at a high school and Effie was white. The comments were hilarious though. I can't find it though.
I seem to remember a Youtube video of the final scene of Dreamgirls performed at a high school and Effie was white. The comments were hilarious though. I can't find it though.
Updated On: 8/22/10 at 03:21 PM
#73
Posted: 8/22/10 at 6:01pm
How would you feel about a production of RENT in which ethnicities were jumbled up?
I saw Rent Remixed in London and the races were definitely jumbled up, more so because of the understudies that were on. Joanne and Mimi were white, and When I saw it Benny was white and angel was black. Also the characters were British! (not just the actors)
I don't mind colourblind casting when it isn't important to the plot (Hairspray etc...) or confusing (young and older characters different colours). I can get past the family being different races as that does happen with modern families and historical characters being different races if the actor is right.
I saw Rent Remixed in London and the races were definitely jumbled up, more so because of the understudies that were on. Joanne and Mimi were white, and When I saw it Benny was white and angel was black. Also the characters were British! (not just the actors)
I don't mind colourblind casting when it isn't important to the plot (Hairspray etc...) or confusing (young and older characters different colours). I can get past the family being different races as that does happen with modern families and historical characters being different races if the actor is right.
#74
Posted: 8/22/10 at 6:28pm
My favorite colorblind casting is Norm Lewis in The Little Mermaid. I think Momma Triton boinked the milkman.
Bryan2- if I recall correctly there was an Asian phantom.
Bryan2- if I recall correctly there was an Asian phantom.
#75
Posted: 8/22/10 at 7:27pm
"For me the only issue I have is when it is a character that seems unbelievable in a period piece. Like Cornel John and Norm Lewis as Javert. Highly unlikely that there would be a black police man in France, let alone rise up the ranks of the force. Yes it is theatre and the whole thing requires some level of suspending belief, but still."
Thomas-Alexandre Dumas (ne Davy de la Pailleterie) was a Haitian-born black French general who served in Napoleon's army. There were other high-ranking blacks that served in the French military in the 18th and 19th centuries,though their names escape me at the moment. The idea of a black Javert is plausible. As long as it can be justified,I'm all for color-blind casting in period pieces.
Thomas-Alexandre Dumas (ne Davy de la Pailleterie) was a Haitian-born black French general who served in Napoleon's army. There were other high-ranking blacks that served in the French military in the 18th and 19th centuries,though their names escape me at the moment. The idea of a black Javert is plausible. As long as it can be justified,I'm all for color-blind casting in period pieces.
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