Experiences With Condescending Theatre Goers

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 12:24pm

So, I've been dipping my toes in the online Broadway fandom outside of this forum, and I noticed a term being used called "condescending theatre goer" used. I first came across it when I read a Broadway Abridged version of South Pacific where they poked fun of some audience members talking about the fact that Lincoln Center had a full orchestra and full sets, etc. and they were like "you know THOSE people..."

Then I saw Lin-Manuel Miranda's twitter thread about a conversation he had with a condescending theatre goer during intermission of My Fair Lady. Miranda was loving MFL and during intermission, some theatre goer tried to be passive aggressive with him and this is how the conversation went:

https://twitter.com/Lin_Manuel/status/1016333713024700416

I'm wondering, what are your experiences with condescending audiences members? Are you sometimes guilty of being one? Some times I feel like I can be...on this forum. I try to keep any sort of comments to myself unless they are positive when I'm actually seeing a show.

Updated On: 7/9/18 at 12:24 PM

[bfreak]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 12:28pm

Usually the people surrounding me are very nice, occasionally I'll hear people say something that'll make me roll my eyes. I can't believe how disrespectful that person was to Lin, even if you're not a fan of his work, why say anything at all? Some people are just bitter and nasty unfortunately.

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 12:34pm

My most recent condescending theatregoer experience was actually also at My Fair Lady, which I attended with a family member. We arrived in our seats about 20 minutes before curtain to snap a playbill picture and upload to social media (as we always do!). As we were finding the perfect angle, the woman behind us whispered to her friend in a hifalutin voice, “Oh, look at them in front of us, they’re gonna be on their phones the whole show. The theatre just keeps getting ruined these days.” I looked incredulously at my family member and then turned back to say, “I’m sorry, do you have a problem? The show doesn’t start for 20 minutes.” My favorite part was that she didn’t even try to counter back—she just pretended she didn’t say anything at all. When the lights started to go down, I held my phone up to her level to clearly show I was turning it off.

[Kitsune]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 12:40pm

Not condescending, but my partner and I overheard the following at Angels in America part 2 (Berkeley Rep edition) the other day:

"Honey, do you realize that this is part two?"

(My partner and I give each other worried looks from a few rows up)

"Yeah, remember, we saw part one last month? With the gay guys and the angel crashing down from the ceiling at the end?"

"Huh, okay."

(To be fair, they were perfectly polite audience members and I sincerely hope they had a good time. This will likely be me a number of years down the road )

[nasty_khakis]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 12:57pm

I've had the experience of basically being this person. Not the extreme of the Lin situation, but I've overheard people talking and saying something factually incorrect or complain about a detail in the show and I'll say "Oh, well, in the original it was that way too so it's not this director" and say things like that in a nice way. Sometimes the people say "Oooh, thanks! That makes me appreciate it more/better!" and sometimes they'll look at me like I called their dog ugly. So over the years I've learned to just not say anything unless directly asked.

 

[kelsey1389]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 1:00pm

I saw Wicked in May, after waiting a very long time to see it. It's one of my favorite shows and after the end of Defying Gravity (at the beginning of intermission) I was a little teary eyed after seeing Elphaba fly. I was talking to my mom about how I loved this show and how inspiring it is when Elphie flies, and the woman sitting behind us leaned up and said "if you love the show so much you shouldn't be surprised that she flies. And also, this Elphie (Jackie Burns) has nothing on Idina. Grow up and stop crying". My mom gave her a talking to, but it certainly was...weird, to say the least. 

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 1:08pm

kelsey1389 said: "I saw Wicked in May, after waiting a very long time to see it. It's one of my favorite shows and after the end of Defying Gravity (at the beginning of intermission) I was a little teary eyed after seeing Elphaba fly. I was talking to my mom about how I loved this show and how inspiring it is when Elphie flies, and the woman sitting behind us leaned up and said "if you love the show so much you shouldn't be surprised that she flies. And also, this Elphie (Jackie Burns) has nothing on Idina. Grow up and stop crying". My mom gave her a talking to, but it certainly was...weird, to say the least."

How strange! That person who spoke that way to you just sounds like a miserable person all-around.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 1:27pm

I'm sure I have been this person, but I try hard not to be. Even when I correct people I try to do it really casually and politely, and I'll even make it sounds like I'm less sure of myself than I am. (e.g "I think ___ was actually ____, not ____, but I could be misremembering. Let's look it up." 

The big one for me is when I talk to theatregoers who really only like the big popular, "in" shows -- almost all of which are pop-y musicals. Intellectually, I know there's nothing wrong liking only those kinds of shows. Everyone is entitled to their own taste, and not everyone has had the economic opportunity to see as wide a range of theatre as I have. But carrying on a conversation with that sort of fan can still be difficult, because their perspective on theatre is just so much more limited than my own, but I don't want to be that condescending theatregoers guy. 

Sometimes I will speak up if they actively bash things just because they aren't Broadway Musicals. I've heard comments like "why do they even bother to produce plays on Broadway? It should just be musicals." And sometimes I'll hear people criticize Off-Broadway, saying that Broadway is inherently better. In those cases, I have been known to be more vocal about suggesting that they broaden their horizons a bit. It's one thing to say that plays or Off-Broadway shows just aren't where you want to be spending your time and money, but it's another thing entirely to openly bash them when you have little to no knowledge of them. 

Updated On: 7/9/18 at 01:27 PM

[veronicamae]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 1:53pm

My favorite moments are when, at a show such as Wicked, you overhear someone saying they saw Idina or Kristin in it in Houston or some other city last year and how great they were in comparison to whoever is in the roles at that performance.

Like...ma'am...I assure you, you did not...

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 4:04pm

I think there's a difference between having preferences or being a know-it-all and being exclusionary or passive aggressive. First of all, no one forces you to talk to anyone. And if you are having a conversation, it's totally possible to disagree without being rude or putting someone else down. YMMV

[sdrick]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 4:54pm

BroadwayConcierge said: "My most recent condescending theatregoer experience was actually also at My Fair Lady, which I attended with a family member. We arrived in our seats about 20 minutes before curtain to snap a playbill picture and upload to social media (as we always do!). As we were finding the perfect angle, the woman behind us whispered to her friend in a hifalutin voice, “Oh, look at them in front of us, they’re gonna be on their phones the whole show. The theatre just keeps getting ruined these days.” I looked incredulously at my family member and then turned back to say, “I’m sorry, do you have a problem? The show doesn’t start for 20 minutes.” My favorite part was that she didn’t even try to counter back—she just pretended she didn’t say anything at all. When the lights started to go down, I held my phone up to her level to clearly show I was turning it off."

Condescending Theatre Goer meets Passive-Agressive Theate goer . . .

 

[quizking101]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 5:00pm

Some of the worst condescending theatre goers I usually encounter at the stage door, especially when it relates to a particular actor.

A common interaction involves a "stan" of that actor, and we are usually discussing their performance in this and other shows, and I could say something like "Well, I didn't think they were the best in the role." or "I like other things they've done more." and you can hear the Kill Bill siren go off in their head before they dress you down about why you are wrong.

Like, b!tch, I've seen 131 different Broadway shows in my young life. I'm more than capable of assessing and discerning my own opinions about performances and show elements.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 5:01pm

Not condescending but a real "why the f__k are you here?" was sitting next to a guy in Angels in America who said that Tony Kushner was the "devil" and the play was "the work of anti-Christ." He said he was in a group called "Gays for Jesus" and wanted to sit through the play to see "how the enemy thinks." I was thinking "8 hours is a lot of time and energy to invest in watching a work you ideologically despise."

[nasty_khakis]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 5:02pm

veronicamae said: "My favorite moments are when, at a show such as Wicked, you overhear someone saying they saw Idina or Kristin in it in Houston or some other city last year and how great they were in comparison to whoever is in the roles at that performance.

Like...ma'am...I assure you, you did not..."

True story-- I was working front-of-house at the Helen Hayes and someone said they'd been to this theatre last year and saw Nicole Kidman IN Wicked. I said "oh, was she at the show?" assuming she meant to say at instead of in. She insisted no, she was Glinda and it was in this very theater. I at least got her to come around it wasn't in that theatre, but she insisted "the blonde one" was Nicole Kidman.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 5:18pm

I love how Lin, in typical LMM fashion, manages to make the interaction all about him. The guy saying he liked the classics may have been a simple enough statement having nothing to do with Hamilton. He may not even have BEEN aware of the fact that he was speaking to the composer of Hamilton.

[JayElle]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 5:25pm

BwayConcierge,  Someone told me a lot of the Lincoln Center attendees are members.  They continue to dress for the theater, unlike the tourists hitting Broadway shows.

All of my experiences have been with inconsiderate, self-aborbed theater-goers. Talking through the show, constantly checking their phones, shuffling through bags, etc.  The worst was at S/Bob.  The audience treated the theater like a playground. Kids weren't paying attention, parents/adults chatting openly with kids. Loved the show; hated the audience. That's when I wished Scott Rudin was there to banish them to the lobby to watch it on TV.

[sdrick]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 5:55pm

adamgreer said: "I love how Lin, in typical LMM fashion, manages to make the interaction all about him. The guy saying he liked the classics may have been a simple enough statement having nothing to do with Hamilton. He may not even have BEEN aware of the fact that he was speaking to the composer of Hamilton."

Really?  You are slamming Mr. Miranda, one of the most gracious and generous artists of today?  Whatever the conversation was, your conjecture is meaningless since you weren't there.  Mr. Miranda is entitled to feel as he feels about the interaction. You, on the other hand, have nothing of any merit to say.

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 5:57pm

Disclaimer that I'm going to do some massive generalizing here, but the kind of condescending theatergoers who drive me the most crazy are the musical theatre students. 

At the Color Purple revival, I had a group of them behind me and had to listen to them showing off throughout intermission.... name-dropping, "SLAY QUEEN"ing about everything, bragging about some note they hit in some song, going on (incorrectly) about Tony stats... all so loudly that it was clearly showboating for the benefit of those of us around them. (Which, news flash, if you're bragging about how talented you are, that's a pretty good indication to me that you're not actually that talented. Or at least that you have an attitude that won't help you book jobs.) It took every bit of energy in my body to block it out and enjoy the show when they were YASSSSSSing out loud and fake hyperventilating through "I'm Here."

Same kind of thing happened in Frozen... the students behind me full-on YASSSSSSed through "Let It Go," then made fun of the show throughout intermission. It's just... not a good look. 

I realize I sound like the grumpiest curmudgeon, haha. But really. Just sit down, shut up, and don't treat Broadway like it's your friend's senior showcase open rehearsal. 

(Reiterating my disclaimer that this is just a specific type of theatre student! There are plenty of students who are humble, respectful, and appreciative!)

[EllieRose2]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 6:00pm

adamgreer said: "I love how Lin, in typical LMM fashion, manages to make the interaction all about him. The guy saying he liked the classics may have been a simple enough statement having nothing to do with Hamilton. He may not even have BEEN aware of the fact that he was speaking to the composer of Hamilton."

I agree with you.  He was lovely and humble before Hamilton.  He lives in my neighborhood, I see him walking every so often, and he's a nice, chill, still lovely guy it seems.  But, I honestly think he assumes that EVERYONE in the WORLD knows what Hamilton is.  The man may have had no clue who he was speaking to, nor talking about Hamilton itself.  

 

[nasty_khakis]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 6:05pm

Judy, back in my youth and student rush days (back when you had to get there at 6am and wait physically in line) I would HATE to be around those kids (even though I was a theatre student). The worst were these (pre-Glee) show choir kids who literally tried to remember arrangements and they sang for 3 straight hours. I was in hell, but I saw Sweeney Todd again, dangit.

Once later in the run of Next to Normal there was this (apparently infamous) girl who was in line behind me making her second and she spent the good part of 2 hours crying and saying how she HAD to get the first ticket, she does it every week and her and Alice have a "bit" and Alice won't know what to do if she's not in her seat. Now, I know I should have just swapped places with her because who cares, I was guaranteed a spot either way, but I had more fun listening to her whine then bursting her bubble by saying "Alice will be a trained professional and carry on somehow." When I got to my seat close to curtain, she was indeed sitting in it and I got the usher to make her move one over, making me, the Condescending Theater-Goer.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 6:06pm

I don't know. As long as you're not barging in on someone else's conversation or being loud and obnoxious, I think you're within your rights to bash a show you aren't enjoying at intermission.

Speaking of overhearing conversations, this wasn't exclusionary but it was condescending. I was at an event where a person seated near me was evidently an older working actor with theater degree. When his seatmate asked him why Tommy Tune didn't work more given how talented he is, he went on this long unsubstantiated ramble about it being because he was unreliable and had a drug problem. He also mentioned an anecdote where he saw him recently and he seemed out of it. It was really weird and unnecessary.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 6:09pm

BroadwayConcierge said: "When the lights started to go down, I held my phone up to her level to clearly show I was turning it off."

If it were me, I would not have used my index finger to turn it off.

[EllieRose2]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 6:13pm

I was sitting next to two very elderly ladies at Carousel, one said "The part of Billy Bigelow belongs to a white man, HE (gesturing towards the stage) never would have been cast in the original production".   The other sniffed and said "Neither would THIS Jigger".  

I turned red, felt very stabby, and took a deep breath.  I turned to them and said "I'm so glad your generation will be all dying out soon".  

They said nothing the rest of the intermission, second act, and swiftly left before curtain call.  Ugh.

[froote]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 6:13pm

Why are people saying the man may not have known who LMM was when he clearly acknowledged at the end of the conversation that he did and that what he'd said had been intentionally condescending?

I'm sure if LMM had asked what show are you talking about and the theatregoer had responded with Dear Evan Hansen or something he would not have then tweeted this. I would have had my suspicions in his position too, it's not like Hamilton is some tiny off Broadway show or LMM hasn't been ubiquitous in the last few years. I don't see what's wrong in LMM acknowledging the fact that he is well known now (especially in places filled with theatregoers).

[EllieRose2]

Posted: 7/9/18 at 6:20pm

froote said: "Why are people saying the man may not have known who LMM was when he clearly acknowledged at the end of the conversation that he did and that what he'd said had been intentionally condescending?

Because that never happened.  He never CLEARLY acknowledged who he was or said he was intentionally condescending.  That is why we are saying it, because that never occurred.