FOLLIES: Thoughts...- Page 4

[FrauleinKost]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 8:49am

Great post, redmustand. And Gaveston, I feel the same way! The first time I saw Follies was the 2001 revival; it was my first exposure to the show (didn't even hear the OBC till after that), but I became instantly obsessed. I was 16 years old! I wonder what the hell was wrong with me, why was I able to connect with these middle aged characters? Some people are old souls, I guess.

And 10 years later, I connect on an even deeper level. I've lived more life, have been through some good times and bum times, and have certainly made my share of poor decisions, and, at risk of getting too personal, seeing this production of Follies has made me take a reeeeeeeeal long look at my life and at the Road I Didn't Take. And it's changed my life, and has made me make some changes, because I don't want to identify with these characters even more than I already do!

And yes, a lot of peole end up a Phyllis or Sally or Buddy or Ben. Or Carlotta. That's just life.

Someone questioned "You're Gonna Love Tomorrow/Love Will See Us Through..." on another thread. I think it's an accurate representation of your outlook on life when you're a newlywed in your early 20's. You're not thinking of affairs or financial issues, everything is pretty rose colored until reality sets in. Trust me! And then...life is ducky and time goes flying, and you're so lucky you feel like crying, and...

[RippedMan]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 12:23pm

Again, who is the announcer guy that sings the first number? Not a fan of his voice, and he never comes back and does anything.

I didn't think this version of Buddy's song was much of an accomplishment. Actually the dancing in most of the show seemed a little "Eh."

[AC126748]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 12:31pm

Dmitri Weissman, the impresario, is the one who speaks the introduction, then Roscoe ("here, as always") sings "Beautiful Girls".

Not disrespect meant, but can I ask you a serious question: Are you willfully ignorant of the titles of songs and names of characters in the show and just writing things like "the old lady song" or "the announcer guy" to piss people off? You just saw it, so I imagine you have an easily accessible program.

Updated On: 8/15/11 at 12:31 PM

[uncageg]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 12:32pm

Seeing it tomorrow night and I am quite excited.

[AndersonTours]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 1:07pm

I'm with you, AC. No disrespect intended to RippedMan, but these "questions" all seem like he just hated the show, has no respect for it and wants to pee all over it. I'm starting to tire of this nonsense. And this thread. I smell a rat.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 1:18pm

What?! How have I been disrespectful? This is just the way I talk/who I am. My program is in the drawer in my den where I keep all my playbills. I don't feel like getting up and thumbing through it every time I have a question or comment. I didn't think it was such a big deal.

And I mean no disrespect for the show. Everyone here keeps this show on a pedestal, so I'm just trying to figure out what makes it so great, or as the posters quote Brantley saying "One of the greatest musicals of all time." I just didn't have that connection to the show, so I'm trying to figure it out. Maybe it comes off as ignorant, but I'm young, and I've never claimed to have all the answers.

[FrauleinKost]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 1:57pm

RippedMan, it actually does come off as a bit disrespectful and immature to refer to Rosalind Elias as "that old lady with the man voice". You almost sound like a troll.

Now you're wondering who "that announcer guy" is...? Um, Dimitri Weissman. As in the Weissman Follies. You know, the reason these people are all there...he basically introduces himself in his speech. Do you know who Florenz Ziegfeld was? The Ziegfeld Follies? I'm not being snarky, but maybe you don't know a lot about the Ziegfeld Follies, what/who Ziegfeld Girls were, etc. Might give you a better understanding of the basic outline of show. Google Florenz Ziegfeld, Marilyn Miller, Doris Eaton, Lillian Lorraine...even Fanny Brice. These people were chorus girls (Ziegfeld Girls, ie Weissman Girls) and headliners (like Fannie Brice...). In the 1920s and 30's these revue type of shows were immensely popular, such as the Ziegfeld Follies, George White's Scandals, etc.

"Beautiful Girls" is likely a sort of play on "A Pretty Girl Is Like a Melody"...(at least I always think of it that way)

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 2:08pm

I'd suggest using the Internet for help if the playbill is too far away, but as you can plainly see, doing so creates a bit of Ouroboros.

http://tinyurl.com/3q5qx3e

[Kad]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 2:12pm

RippedMan is referring to Roscoe, who sings the opening number, "Beautiful Girls".

In the follies, the showgirls typically made a grand introduced and were introduced in song by a male soloist.

You've seen The Producers, right? The first half of "Springtime for Hitler" is basically a pastiche of a Ziegfeld Follies.

[Kad]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 2:12pm

Grand entrance, I mean.

It would be really great if I were able to edit my posts.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 3:37pm

Henrik, I admit I only know Lion from the film (which is obviously dominated by two star performances). I trust your appraisal of the play.

lizabombs, thanks for finding the Bennett quote. I'm glad to know we weren't totally delusional. (And thanks to joey for his personal recollection of Bennett.)

FrauleinKost, I'm glad you got to fall in love with Follies at 16. Thank God people keep reviving the show, even if nobody makes any money off it.

Either Henrik or joey pointed out above that the greatest enthusiasm for the original production came from young people. Somewhere, in the thousands of pages written about the show, Prince or somebody says that it's easier for the young to love Follies because they can still tell themselves they won't end up like Ben, Phyllis, Buddy or Sally.
Updated On: 8/15/11 at 03:37 PM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 4:24pm

"Somewhere, in the thousands of pages written about the show, Prince or somebody says that it's easier for the young to love Follies because they can still tell themselves they won't end up like Ben, Phyllis, Buddy or Sally."

I think that when one is old enough to recognize aspects of oneself in one or more of the principles, one is also old enough to realize that while the characters' situations might veer painfully close to home, Follies is heavy on wallowing but light on catharsis.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 5:08pm

I haven't seen it since the Reprise LA concert version 10 or 12 years ago. It'll be interesting to see it again now that I am the age of the main characters. (To be fair to my husband, my marriage isn't a sham or in shambles. But if we're honest, we all have our regrets.)

[ljay889]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 10:54pm

but I'm young, and I've never claimed to have all the answers.

You keep using the "I'm young" excuse. Just how young are you?

[AC126748]

Posted: 8/15/11 at 11:01pm

What?! How have I been disrespectful?

--Referring to an operatic legend as "that old lady with the man voice."
--Referring to her song as "the old lady song."
--Referring to "The Right Girl" as "That Girl or whatever it's called."
--Referring to Roscoe as "that announcer guy."

I'm just waiting for you to call Elaine Paige "that c*nt in the blue dress."

[bwayfan7000]

Posted: 8/16/11 at 12:37am

Being young has nothing to do with it. I'm relatively young and love the show, but not everyone is going to love this show, or any, for that matter.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 8/16/11 at 12:48am

Oh, come off your high horses. It isn't disrespectful. Is she not old and does she not have a very manly sounding voice? And is the announcer guy not indeed a male announcer? I mean, come on.

Back on track, I do think it's odd that he announces the girls and sings this big song and then we don't see him again until he just randomly crosses upstage and improvs very loudly on his way with "Anyone taking a cab uptown?" - to which we all giggled. It just seems odd that he didn't have any sort of backstory or interaction with the girls. I also found it odd that Florence Lacy - who is big in DC - is essentially playing ensemble. But alas, it is ensemble on Broadway, so can't blame her.

[ljay889]

Posted: 8/16/11 at 1:06am

I really don't enjoy being like this, but let's face it, I think it all really went over your head. I'm not trying to act all high and mighty, but I think it's clear at this point. You keep blaming it on your age, but many younger people (myself included) have no trouble understanding and enjoying the show.

You sound extremely ignorant when you use terms like "the old lady with the man voice." Updated On: 8/16/11 at 01:06 AM

[SondheimFan5]

Posted: 8/16/11 at 8:12am

Actually, Ms. Elias does not sound like a man at all. She is a mezzo-soprano and that is her tone quality which I, like the majority of everyone else here, think is beautiful. The woman is 82 years old; most people would kill to sound like that at 82!

Also, as for Roscoe, if you have listened to or seen numerous other renditions of the show, all of the Roscoes through time have a tone quality similar to that of Mr. Hayes, including the original, Michael Bartlett, and Broadway producer Arthur Rubin, who did the role at Encores! and in the '85 concert album. That is just the style of the song--similar to "The Flower Garden of My Heart", "A Pretty Girl is Like a Melody", and "Beautiful Girl" (from Singin in the Rain)".

What people like RippedMan must realize is that we (or at least I) do not go into the theatre for Follies to expect to see a bunch of 20-somethings in the leading roles, or older people who act and perform like 20-somethings. Yes, the Young 4 and ensemble are in their 20s or 30s but that is the beauty of Follies: There is an ensemble cast of distinguished and notable theatre legends. And that is a testament to how the show is regarded--people like Elaine Paige don't take supporting roles very often, but they will do so in a good revival of Follies.


*Getting off my soap box now*

[uncageg]

Posted: 8/16/11 at 8:41am

"Oh, come off your high horses."

Maybe they will if you get up off of your butt and walk a few steps to get the Playbill and list the characters like everyone else here does. Are you really that lazy? And if you are then how did you ever muster the strength to leave your home and go to a theater to see a show?

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 8/16/11 at 9:14am

"No ignorance stings more than willful ignorance."

- G.W. Bush Jr.

[Pippin]

Posted: 8/16/11 at 9:23am

"Back on track, I do think it's odd that he announces the girls and sings this big song and then we don't see him again until he just randomly crosses upstage and improvs very loudly on his way with "Anyone taking a cab uptown?" - to which we all giggled. It just seems odd that he didn't have any sort of backstory or interaction with the girls."

maybe, but the show is not about him. The main focus is on the four older leads and their young counterparts. He needs no backstory, or any other function in the show than to introduce the girls and go on with the party.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/16/11 at 9:38am

I was thinking more about how aging - er, maturing - has affected my evaluation of the show. I don't want to belabor my feelings about the book, but I have to say that my appreciation for the lyrics, which I've always loved, only grows deeper.

In the cast of Lucy and Jessie, for years I don't think I had the slightest idea what she was going on about (I even briefly considered, but quickly dismissed, that Phyllis was comparing herself and Sally). Now, every word seems like a reflection, albeit a crossgender one, of the relationship between my current and younger selves.

I would think it would be difficult for a younger person who hasn't personally experienced those kind of changes in erotic energy, relative degree of excitement about life's pleasures, and buying power (and or had a close hand look at these through your contemporaries' experiences which though perhaps somewhat different than your own will prove not entirely foreign to you) to understand the power of the song.
Updated On: 8/16/11 at 09:38 AM

[bk]

Posted: 8/16/11 at 10:20am

The last time I got into it with someone on this board and had a back and forth it turned out I was conversing with a fourteen year old. Nothing wrong with conversing with a fourteen year old but it does sort of inform things :) I'm not saying Ripped Man is fourteen, but I'd be very surprised if he's out of his teens.

[FrauleinKost]

Posted: 8/16/11 at 10:25am

"maybe, but the show is not about him. The main focus is on the four older leads and their young counterparts. He needs no backstory, or any other function in the show than to introduce the girls and go on with the party."

Exactly, Pippin, and that's the role that he would have played in the Ziegfeld Follies, etc...go watch the movie "Ziegfeld Girl".

I hate to sound like Follies is some sort of clique (though, well, it is to a point I suppose among us diehards...), but it sounds like you just REALLY don't get the show, and even if you are too lazy to retreive your playbill, a simple google search would have turned up the answers to your question. I mean it's one thing to say you couldn't relate to these characters, but quite another to say things like "that old lady with the man voice". You sound like you're 12. Maybe you are, I don't know, I was posting on RATM when I was 12, but I never used terms like that...

I'm a young person (26) who "gets" the show and f*cking LOVES the show, but even if you're not, my God, have some respect. How can we take you seriously if you can't be bothered to even use a character or actress' name? And people are giving you answers, btw.