Gavin Creel, Raul Esparza, Cheyanne Jackson- Page 4

[DBillyP]

Posted: 7/23/05 at 4:02pm

chita, care to explain? I was openly gay during college without having told a family member.

[Act4ever]

Posted: 7/23/05 at 4:12pm

I agree w/ you DBillyP. I am openly gay on this site, openly gay in the theatre, but no family knows.

Who cares about this stuff anyway? It's personal life. If Gavin or Cheyanne wanted people to know about their personal lives, they would tell us.

Posted: 7/23/05 at 4:14pm

Ok. But I don't think it's gonna make a bit of difference to you.

If you are openly gay you are open about it. You don't skirt around the issue. You don't let people assume your straight in conversations with you. You tell those you love and love you. You are open. If a magazine interviews me, you bet I'll let them know that a) I'm dating a wonderful guy(guy, not person) or b) the right guy has not come along. That's open. Anything else is half pregnant.

And for the record I don't out people. If you choose to be closeted , good for you. This debate is about saying someone is out when clearly they are not.

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edit:

I agree it's nobody's business who marries who, who kisses who, who has who's baby. But you will agree that even though it's nobody's business ...it is good business. Entertainment Tonight, Access Hollywood, Oprah, The Insider, Extra , and on and on and on.

And most celebrities go along with it because it does not affect the almighty dollar. You can have sex with a hooker and with the right spin, you become a hotter property than you were before getting arrested! If the hooker would have been a man I'm pretty sure the talented and adorable Hugh Grant would not have appeared on the late night talk show to make light of his predicament.(yes he apologized but it was all very lite and fun)


Updated On: 7/23/05 at 04:14 PM

[DBillyP]

Posted: 7/23/05 at 4:18pm

My point, chita, is that is what "open" means to you but not to everyone. Applying your definition to someone else does not always work.

My coming out process was unique to me, as yours was to you. Sure, they surely shared similar moments, but they were different. Therefore, we cant apply the same definitions to our experiences.

Updated On: 7/23/05 at 04:18 PM

[Kringas]

Posted: 7/23/05 at 4:22pm

Perhaps you aren't really open then, just slightly ajar.

[eslgr8]

Posted: 7/23/05 at 4:26pm

Just to clarify, I'm referring to the definition of "openly gay" as applied by the media to a celebrity, not to a private individual. A celebrity is referred to as "openly gay" by a newspaper, magazine, or TV program only if this person has come out to the media. I have compiled a list of openly gay performers which I have posted here on other occasions. Gavin Creel is not on that list, nor is any other celebrity who does not address the question of his orientation with the press. Your own situation, or mine, as a private individual, does indeed vary according to the people we are with. But should I ever become well enough known to be intereviewed by the media and if in that interview I say that I'm gay, then I would be an "out" or "openly gay" celebrity. Until then, I'm just a private as opposed to public figure.

As to Emcee's postings, I think one thing should be very much taken into consideration. Emcee is a heterosexual female. Though she has the right to her own opinion as well as the right to express it, for her to speak so vehemently about a gay issue can be seen as being as inappropriate as for me to argue with an African American person about issues reflecting his community. He would have every right to say to me, "How dare you presume to know where I'm coming from?" Though I would not wish to use such strong words with Emcee, I believe that the sentiment is appropriate.

Finally, if who we are is "nobody's business but our own," then please, let's stop asking for marriage rights or the right to serve openly in the military, to mention two current examples, because that would me telling other people who we are, and it's apparently not their business.

TabooPhan1 and justthefacts2: You both made some very excellent and well-stated points.

PS: Thanks to all those on this thread who are refraining from personal attacks and rude remarks.

Steven
Updated On: 7/23/05 at 04:26 PM

[eslgr8]

Posted: 7/23/05 at 6:27pm

I'd kind of like to make this my last posting about this subject in this forum. I doubt that I can change the opinion of any whose minds are made up. However I'd like to say, in closing:

The main point I've been trying to make is one of deepest respect and admiration for the dozens of actors/singers/performers who have come out, despite their fears, despite the purported harm it may do to their careers, despite people who say it doesn't matter.
In my opinion, it does matter, especially to young gay teens like many on this site, who see a Cheyenne Jackson or a John Tartaglia or an Anthony Rapp succeed brilliantly and proudly and maybe think, I can do that myself. Being gay doesn't have to hold me back. Maybe I don't have to hide who I am to be successful in my life and career.
And I think that those performers who are gay, but let their fears prevent them from even mentioning in interviews one important (though admittedly not all-important) aspect of their lives, are not living up to the higher standard set by those who have come out.
I'm not saying that a newspaper or magazine or TV program should out these people. I'm am saying that these performers are taking the easy way out, and that in the year 2005, I personally don't find anything admirable about this decision they are making.
Updated On: 7/23/05 at 06:27 PM

[DBillyP]

Posted: 7/23/05 at 7:55pm

I, too, will make this my last post.

While, again, I agree that role models are important, we have to respect that people must make their own decisions. We may not always agree with them, but that does not make someone a bad person because he or she chooses to do something differently than we would. Every person is on a different journey. Who knows what influences one person or another to be more or less open - society at large, the Church, an agent, a lover who wants privacy?

Perhaps Gavin Creel does not want to be a role model for young lesbians and gays. Perhaps he would just like to perform and write music and do his own thing without being pressured to live up to an artificial standard created by people he doesn't even know. That is his choice.

As long as he is not doing anything harmful to the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community, then we should respect his decision. He isn't lieing and pretending to have a girlfriend or getting married to a woman. He isn't passing legislation that would harm the LGBT community and then picking up tricks in gay chat rooms. He is entertaining people with his talent. We should be grateful for that and then leave him alone.

We can also be grateful for Cheyenne and Chris Seiber and Rosie and other lesbians and gays who live their lives differently. That, too, is their choice.

As long as they are not destructive, I think that we should respect the choices that others make, regardless of whether or not we would make the same ones.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/23/05 at 10:53pm

Well, God knows I saw that coming. But it's no reason to ignore me. I think it's extremely offensive and narrow-minded for you to flat-out ignore me because of who I am. Hell, you can't even address me directly like you have everyone else. You have to speak generally about my comments. You know what? What you've done is an action as closed minded as those of people like you would often accuse others of being, for not being accepting. I know that I don't understand where you're coming from. But what, regardless of my gender/sexual orientation, I DO understand is respect - which, by having discussions like this and making accusations and pointing fingers about these people who we supposedly admire is awful. It's wrong, especially when there are people, for whatever reason(s) there may be, who are not entirely out, for them to be publically torn down because of that - we don't know them. And just like you accuse me of not understanding where you come from, you don't know where THEY come from. For reasons of compassion, respect for a certain person's dignity, and keeping his privacy, I can not give or describe the example I have in mind. But know that there is one, and that it breaks my heart that people would view him this way, because of a personal, very, very rational decision. I would never, ever want to be responsible for potentially hurting him that way, even if through this tanglement of an internet grapevine. What you seem to be missing, though, is that most of my postings here have not been rants about coming out, or things that I'd know nothing about. I've admitted my lack of knowledge and personal experience. You're missing the basic point, but I don't think I can say I'm surprised.

So I, in closing (at least of this post, because I'm sure this isn't yet over)... I can't believe you would call me out on that. I can't even appreciate your consideration in holding back what you really want to say - that doesn't make it sting any less. If you knew anything about me, you'd know that even from my very limited, very different viewpoint, I'm supportive. I would never, ever say something like that about someone; outwardly admit that I do not care to see their opinion because of their sexual orientation. That's lower than I'd dare to stoop.

Updated On: 7/23/05 at 10:53 PM