Gavin Creel, Raul Esparza, Cheyanne Jackson — Page 3

I didn't mean to offend, I'm just annoyed. I said, "act like it's normal" because it's rare that I meet a gay person who does. They act like it's some big thing that EVERYONE and their dog needs to know about it and be okay with, damnit. The fact is, there's always gonna be someone who dislikes SOMETHING about you and discriminates against you for that reason. So just live don't be an ass about it. If someone wants to be an ass towards you because of it, let them. Their loss.

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If someone wants to be an ass towards you because of it, let them. Their loss.

Unfortunately, freeadmission, things aren't quite that simple. I think it's wonderful that to you it's no "big thing" (that IS some sort of progress), but to a large portion of the population (and the politicians representing them), it IS still an issue, and does affect my life.

And luvtheEmcee, I thought you made some valid points...My posts have not been commenting on the original topic, but to more general points made by Freeadmission (to be honest with you, I don't even know who the hell Gavin Creel is).

Updated On: 7/22/05 at 04:41 PM

Thank you, NCGuy.

Gavin was the original Jimmy in Thoroughly Modern Millie, and he recently had a featured role in La Cage. That's where most people know him from, I guess. Talented guy, and very sweet.

And applause to you, DBillyP. I'd have said the same, but to be straight and make that accusation would've put me severely on the offensive, where I absolutely don't mean to be.

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Freeadmission, I'd just like to say that your logic is a tiddle flawed. It's not uncommon to meet gay people who do not flaunt their sexuality, and it's also not uncommon to meet people who do. The point is, when you've seen people who have been harrassed as brutally as our group has in recent (and not so recent) years, it's hard to just want to say, "Oh well." and continue watching it occur. Up until the past few decades it was completely unacceptable to tell anyone you were gay, and now that we feel free to be who we are, you better believe we're gonna celebrate that. I am not being racist, just making a point, when I say: No one complains about BET, or national black history month, nor should they. Why is it any different? Should we tell black people they don't have the right to be proud? Isn't this part of your "Live and let live" philosophy?

As for "being an ass" about being gay, that's F***ing rediculous. When people like Matthew Shephard are murdered, when people in other countries are given the death sentance for proclaiming their sexuality, DON'T go calling the people who fight for protection asses. It's childish and ignorant. "Acting" gay is more than just a lifestyle, it's a statement. When someone tells you to "just live" when you see your entire community being segregated and barraged, then come talk to me about "just living". This is oddly reminiscent of people asking MLK why he couldn't just accept society's standards for blacks. What's the difference? Sometimes you have to be the extremist just to be normal. Before you just go flapping your mouth, think. And just the fact that you would complain about other people "shoving their gayness down your throat" is disproving your "live and let live" theory, cause I'll let you hate me if I can flaunt my "gayness". Oppression isn't a joke.

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Well, let's hear it for realism!

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Updated On: 7/22/05 at 11:52 PM

DGrant hasn't even posted on this thread. Shows how much concentration you're giving to something that is oh-so important, doesn't it?

I don't think I can even try express my frustration. This is painfully disgusting.

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Updated On: 7/23/05 at 11:43 AM

Emcee, you're right that I confused DBillyP and DGrant, and I apologize for the mistake, however I do not appreciate the catty remark. It was unnecessary and uncalled for. Anyone who has read my comments can see that I do my best to proofread and to make sure that my ideas have been clearly expressed, and that as a rule I am hardly inattentive in my contributions to this site. Like you, however, I am frustrated that I can't get through to those who disagree with my point of view. Apparently, we in the gay community have our own polarization, which reflects the situation in the country as a whole. I can understand that others have a different point of view, but I am unswayed in my own, despite their efforts to convince me that I'm wrong.

Updated On: 7/23/05 at 12:56 PM

I think Chita's getting upset because he may not be able to express how gay he is in public without a d!ck in his mouth.

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TheatreDiva, that was low and disgusting. If you want to attack someone, say something legitimate, not something we'd hear in a high school locker room.

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esl, my point is that trying to apply one definition to all members of a group is ludicrous. By your definition, I am not openly gay since I have never said "I am gay" in the pages of a magazine. You are applying what you "believe" is the definition used by publications.

An actor can be openly gay among the theatre community without ever discussing it with the Advocate. A person can be openly gay at work without ever telling a family member.

Coming out is, unfortunately, a lifelong process. Fortunately, however, it is a process that each person can choose for him or herself. To criticize someone for not being openly gay when you don't even know the person simply because he or she doesn't fit your definition of the way their life should be led is, yes, narrowminded.

I agree that it would be great if every lesbian or gay person felt comfortable being out to the entire world, since we are definitely lacking in role models. Alas, that is not the case, but it is not my place to tell someone else how open or closeted he or she should be.

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esl, I've thought a lot about the difference between your position and mine on this issue - and those with whom we line up about this. I'm about protecting the individual - everything luv was saying before. You are about compromising individuals, if necessary, to protect a community. It's a dichotomy that applies not only to the gay community but to every social issue in history in which people have struggled for freedom. There's never been an easy answer. On different issues, our positions might reverse. Yeats wrote a line that applies, I think, in a poem about about a different struggle: "Too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart."

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Updated On: 7/24/05 at 03:24 PM

Jumping back a little bit here:

Straight people don't go around saying they are straight.

Baddadnpa, no, they don't, because the implicit societal assumption is that everyone is straight. It may not be to the people on here, but this board really isn't a microcosm of society.

It will continue to be difficult for gays to enter the mainstream if we continue to act as if we need to make "the statement" everytime we go out.

Making no statement is akin to giving your tacit acceptance of the status quo. And your statement saddens me, because you're putting the burden of responsibility on gays, yet implying that visibility (or visibility you personally find distasteful) ties our hands.

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