Hello Dolly Film Version- Page 2

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 10/3/06 at 10:11pm

As noted, the sets are waaaaaaaaaaaay too big (The Harmonia Gardens looks like it would command about the same square footage as Madison Square Garden), and the costumes are absurd (What *is* that purple thing she's wearing during the "Dancing" number?). The 14th Street Parade is about the size of the Rose Bowl Parade.

Some things dont *need* to be larger than life to succeed, y'know? I didnt have a real issue with Streisand as Dolly, but I admit she wasnt that much of a wow as I thought she'd be. But the movie around her was pretty appalling.

[jimnysf]

Posted: 10/3/06 at 10:33pm

"He was such a wonderful and innovative choreographer in his day and to just, basically, mimic Gower Champion's work was distressing."

Michael Kidd was the choreograher. Gene Kelly directed the film.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 10/3/06 at 10:45pm

I do wish Gene Kelly had gone more out on a limb with the dancing. He was such a wonderful and innovative choreographer in his day and to just, basically, mimic Gower Champion's work was distressing.

As previously stated, Michael Kidd did the choreography; and, from what I hear, quite a bit of direction, especially in the musical numbers, in general. But, his choreography is nothing like Champion's was on Broadway. It was completely different, in every single number.

[OtherDaryl]

Posted: 10/3/06 at 11:06pm

Duly noted.

[sondheimboy2]

Posted: 10/3/06 at 11:11pm

Gene Kelly never was a great director. Arthur Laurents says in his wonderful autobiography that Babs called him up during it and said "Help! I've got a tap dancer for a director!" It would be interesting to see what she would do with the part now that she has some years under her belt.

I saw on a "Biography" of Ann Margaret that she did a screen test to play Irene Malloy and sang "Ribbons Down My Back". Then I heard that Babs didn't want anyone prettier than her in the movie.

The film is, like so many other musicals of the period, just bloated.

[jimnysf]

Posted: 10/3/06 at 11:26pm

Danny Lockin was wonderful as Barnaby, a role I also saw him perform in the Ethel Merman stage show. Ann-Margret and Joanne Worley were among those who screen tested for the role of Irene Molloy. Sandy Duncan also tested for the film. Some of their screen tests were shown in a documentary on AMC back when AMC had good movies and shows and no commercials. I was hoping all of this stuff was going to be on the DVD but they didn't include it. Perhaps someday. In the meantime, some of the Dolly stuff can be found here:

http://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Screen-Tests-Take-1/dp/B00005Y6YY
http://www.dvdpricesearch.com/cgi-bin/dvdcalc2?cmd=calc&tmpCart=15533

Updated On: 10/3/06 at 11:26 PM

[alterego]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 2:24am

While it certainly isn't my favourite film musical ( that has to be The Umbrellas of Cherbourg) it isn't the worst I've seen. Streisand is certainly miscast but she can sing it. Channing probably never was a serious option ((too Broadway) wasn't it Lucille Ball who wanted to do the movie?

Another who was close to being Irene Malloy was an Australian Trisha Noble. I've seen her screen test turn up more than once on documentries.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 2:32am

Channing may have been too larger-than-life to play Dolly on the screen, but I think she would have generated the same amount of interest in the film as Babs did.

There is no denying that Babs was miscast, but it's also pointless to say that she was bad in it. She is fantastic in the film - and just because she is so different than Channing or Bailey or Merman doesn't make her bad. Obviously, she was too young. At 29 years old, what parade could possibly be passing you by? I also don't think that there is anything terribly wrong with making her Dolly Levi Gallagher rather than Dolly Gallagher Levi. It's simply a change in culture and origin, and it doesn't altar the message and charm of the story one bit.

The reason the film is bad is because of the overblown sets and the horrible pacing. It's incredibly long, where as the comedy and farce of the piece should move right along.

Other than Crawford, I find the supporting cast splendid. And yes, I even think that Barbra is wonderful in role, considering that she WAS painfully miscast.

[Julian2]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 2:43am

I heard Channing was never considered because she wasn't considered attractive enough.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 5:19am

Executives at 20th Century Fox had no issue with Carol Channing; and, in fact, assumed she would be in it. It was Ernest Lehman, the film's producer, who made the decision to not use Channing, after seeing her in THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE. He found her "too much". Why, someone as talented and insightful as Lehman couldn't see that with the right director, she would have been magnificent in the role, remains a mystery. He even asked Julie Andrews to do the part! She turned him down. Other than Dolly, the casting was left up to Gene Kelly, who clearly didn't know what he was doing, with the exception of Danny Lockin, who is the perfect Barnaby.

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 9:08am

I love this movie!

Yes, the sets are huge, but they're also SINGING and DANCING as they walk down the street... so you tell me what's "realistic?" It's a musical!

This movie is like a big bowl of sherbet on a warm summer's day.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 9:24am

True, they're singing and dancing, but this is one reason why movie musicals are so tough to pull off successfully: they werent as stylized as the actors in front of them. And no, just because they were big doesnt make them stylized.

An earlier poster mentioned Umbrellas of Cherbourg, and if you look at the art direction in that film, you see immediately what I mean about stylization: everything is pastel and colour coordinated. The palatte is very delicate and underlines the sensitivities of the story and the plot. You can easily imagine people bursting into song in those rooms and on those streets. With DOLLY, it's a real stretch.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 9:27am

BTW: if you ever want to see a movie musical that's almost completely styled out of its mind, look for RED GARTERS. It was released this past spring on DVD for about ten bucks, and it's worth every penny. An mind-boggling piece of work: a western musical filmed entirely on a sound stage.

[vbplayer]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:04am

Yes ,I agree that Streisand is miscast but I have always enjoyed the film.

[philcrosby]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:14am

The film of DOLLY is a totally different animal than the stage show, which is something that could never be recreated on film. As miscast as Streisand is, she brings real star charisma to the role, something sorely lacking in the rest of the (except for Matthau and Crawford) "where are they now?" cast.

The film is great to look at and listen to, and Streisand eats scenery as well as anyone.

As for casting the title role, I remember reading that the only real contenders besides Streisand were Elizabeth Taylor and Lucille Ball.

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:18am

All the talk about despising Crawford--I liked his performance. He gave Cornelius the youthful, naive, never-been-kissed quality the character needs. Yes, ill admit his accent was a bit weird at times, but his performance for me was quite exceptional. Though I never was able to see the original production, I hate Charles Nelson Reiley's singing on the cast album. He sounds fifty.

[DryMartini]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:19am

Thank god they didn't go with Lucille Ball, after she ruined Mame...

[Albin]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 10:28am

Dollypop, I find it interesting that you are able to give such a detailed review of the film. Afterall, you were the one who for years refused to admit that film even exsisted. If you've watched the film, aren't you in danger of losing your presidency of the "Bitter Old Queens Who Love Channing" club?

[nealb1]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 11:38am

Thank God the last post was posted. Couldn't have said it better myself.

"Hello, Dolly!" is my all time favorite film. It's BRILLIANT!!!!

I recently saw the film twice on the big screen here in LA. In all it's 70MM glory. It was a completely restored and remastered print.

When Barbra is on the screen, you can't take your eyes off of her........she's AMAZING!!! She completely dominates the screen. When she's singing the slow intro to "Before The Parade Passes By," then talks to her late husband and starts to sing again and starts running.......it's thrilling! Absolutely thrilling! The lush score, the opulent design of the film, and the talent of everyone on screen, makes for a FANTASTIC theatrical experience!

Was she too young........not really. Back in the Gay 90's, women were getting married at 16-17. So, it's completely believable that she was a young widow. Perhaps, the script could have added a line saying something to that effect.

Sure, people love to bash the movie saying that Carol C should have recreated her stage role. It's apples and oranges. No matter who was cast........they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't since people love to compare the on screen Dolly to Carol's Dolly.

I saw Carol C in HD in 1982 here in LA and she was terrific! Hysterical!!!!!

[jimnysf]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 11:38am

"where are they now?" cast

Sadly, Danny Lockin was murdered in 1977.
From IMDB: "Danny Lockin lived in Orange County, California and worked at his mother's dance studio for several years after his appearance in "Hello Dolly" with Streisand. On August 21, 1977, he competed on "The Gong Show" and tied for first place. After the taping of that show in Los Angeles, he drove toward his home in Anaheim, but ended up at a bar in Garden Grove instead. He was later found murdered in a nearby apartment of Charles Hopkins who had stabbed him to death. Police found a "torture diary" under Hopkins' bed and prosecutors tried to pursue the death penalty using the pictures in the diary as evidence that Lockin's death was planned. However, Hopkins' trial was postponed because of a car accident, and in that time (lucky for Hopkins) the California Supreme Court ruled that such evidence found AFTER the initial crime scene investigation was NOT admissible. Without the diary to show premeditation, Hopkins was only found guilty of manslaughter and was sentenced to only four years in prison. Critics said justice hadn't been served, as Lockin was stabbed more than 100 times."




EJ Peaker has done a few TV shows and movies including one about the TV show "Gilligan's Island" in 2001. In 2000, Marianne McAndrew last appeared in the TV movie, "Growing Up Brady". Prior to that she did guest roles on "Murphy Brown", "Newhart", "Murder She Wrote" and other shows but it appears "Dolly" was her only major film. (I don't consider "The Bat People" to be a major film).

[Christoph]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 11:51am

It is a semi-charming diversion, but no where near the experience of the stage play with Carol Channing. I think if you have not seen the stage version and are a musical fan, then it may have a stronger impact on the viewer than those who have seen the play.

Other than being miscast, I really do not have any major qualms about Streisand in the part. Her voice is terrific, but acting-wise an older woman should be playing the role. She seems totally mismatched opposite Walter Matthau and the pathos of "Before the Parade Passes By" is completely lost with such a young performer. By contrast, Channing's throaty voice may not be traditional, but she owned the Dolly role like no one else and filled it with rich character embellishments and sublime comedic timing that were lacking in the film version. I have no problem with Crawford in the film, but I don't like Matthau at all. Horace is not an especially lovable role to begin with, but I find Matthau unfunny and especially off-putting in this film. The posters that note the pacing issues are also correct as the film seems longer than it should. Also, whose brilliant idea was it to incorporate Louis Armstrong into the title song?

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 11:56am

nealb: Of course it's possible that Dolly married an older man when she was 16, 17, 18, 19 years old. No one is disputing that. What doesn't make sense is that she talks to her dead husband and says "It's been long enough, Ephraim. Let me go!" And she speaks about re-joining the human race. I felt like saying "Bitch, you're 29 years old no parade is passing you by yet!"

[jimnysf]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 12:06pm

you're 29 years old no parade is passing you by yet

Well, being a 29 year old widow in the early 1900's is not the same as being in the same situation today. I believe that she could feel that the parade is passing her by when she sees that everyone around her has hooked up.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 12:09pm

Yes, but it's supposed to be a desperate plea. It's supposed to seem like she's saying "If I don't do this now, I'll never be able to."

I don't care what the era, but when you're still in your 20's, no parade is passing you by.

[jimnysf]

Posted: 10/4/06 at 12:15pm

She would have been considered "an old maid". After all, she was almost thirty and that was a big deal, even in the 60's when the film was made. It's not the case today, but it was in the 50's and 60's and early 70's.