How will Chris Columbus show the male-male kisses in RENT? — Page 10

All very good points, I'll edit in a real response later. I'm glad we got to discuss some of the issues that the show does bring up.
The Angel angel is really complicated, I do not find her complicated, I think she is a very simple character but an inversion of what you might call a stereotypical character.

I will say many of the characters are rather two-dimensional. I actually find Roger and Mimi's love story the most boring, and as written they are bland to me, now an actor can turn Roger into something powerful easily, but I think the same can be said about most of them.

I also cry at the end.

---

I don't think Jonathan was the deceptive, back stabbing, straight guy some of you make him out to be.

Who said he was?

---

I like this convo!

I have to agree with a few posters up that of all the relationships, I think that Collins and Angel have, by far, the most "heat." When I say "heat," I don't mean plain sexual chemistry (although Wilson and Jesse together? HELLO), I mean the most passion. The other two couples are very...sexual based. Collins and Angel have an innocence about them that's very beautiful. Even in the trailer. Roger and Mimi and Maureen and Joanne are groping each other, sucking faces, etc. But that image where Angel just cuddles Collins against him on the street, hugging his head? I don't know...that just sends an *entirely* different message to me. One of adoration and purity that the other two severely lack, and that makes A/C eons more interesting than the 2 other relationships.

However, the majority of people in the world, simply put, like drama. They like seeing it, they like creating it, they like looking for it. They want drama, and melodramatics, and oh-em-gee "break up and bicker and fight and get back together" stuff. Me, personally? I hate that stuff. Which is why I see the Mimi/Roger and Maureen/Joanne relationships the same way Kringas sees C/A: they bore me to absolute tears. Not only that, but I can't take them seriously. Roger is a depressed dry drunk, Mimi is a whiny crack addict, Maureen is an obnoxious diva and Joanne...well, I actually like Joanne, so the only thing I can fault her with is lack of judgment when it comes to women. All they ever do is fight, fight, fight, bicker, bicker, bicker. Roger and Joanne have depth, but Maureen and Mimi are so...SHALLOW. There's nothing there, at least IMHO. Those two couples have never once convinced me that there's any kind of love there, or anything even worth caring about. Okay, they kiss occasionally, but that's not enough to cancel out the fact that most of the time, those two couples cannot stand each other. It becomes like a bad episode of Dawson's Creek, and they act like whiny high schoolers. Yawn. :-/

Like I said, I hate drama. Angel and Collins? No drama. Angel and Collins are simple. None of the mind game, bickering, teenaged stuff that R/M and M/J are constantly doing. Just pure love, plain and simple. They're mature, they're beautiful, and they're passionate and ardent and firey without being overly sexual and constantly fighting. I wholeheartedly agree that Angel is VASTLY underwritten, and hopefully the movie will change that: I *loved* Kringer's comment about him getting pricked with a needle! Heh!

However, Collins is my favorite character in the entire show. I think he's beautifully written and I find him very complex without being unecessarily complicated. Plus, I like how he matures and you can see how much Angel's love changes him. He's just such a great guy/character, and he touched me a lot.

So...yeah. Bottom line, when I walked out of that theatre, the only couple that affected me AT ALL were Collins and Angel. Roger/Mimi and Maureen/Joanne made me either laugh or roll my eyes. I couldn't have cared less about either of them. The only two people I loved by the end were A and C. They literally made the show for me. In comparison to them, the others were just...well, boring. It was like, I was already surrounded by whiny, adolescent brats in my high school, I didn't need to see it onstage, too.

That being said, I know that I'm in the minority. The majority of those I speak to, while they like A/C, they're the least favorite couple. Why? Because there's no drama. Happiness is boring to people in today's world--they want fighting! And comedic relief! Happy couples fail to entertain, and that's the reason why I think A/C are generally not recieved as well as the other two. It makes sense, but I disagree.

I heart A/C.

Updated On: 8/23/05 at 09:25 PM

Dammit, I'm trying to get ready to go out tonight (meow!) and SolitaryRose has to bust up on the scene with her (his?) well thought-out post. Thanks a lot!

I see what you're saying about groping/cuddling, etc, but (and this may actually sort of echo Art2 here) in the play, I always felt that that was also sort of a cop out. There were all these sparks coming from R/M and M/J (thanks for the abbreviations, SR!), and at the end of the "I'll Cover You" A/C do a quick peck and then raise their heads up to ths sky in rapture (it's been about five years since I've seen it onstage, perhaps it's different now or my mind is blurry). Maybe I'm just a perv. They just met, for God's sake. I want some passion. I don't want "a thousand sweet kisses."

Your point is noted about the drama, but with two drama-laden couples hogging the stage, it just causes A/C to not ring true to me. They're the only angst-free people in the whole show! And both are HIV-positive! More power to 'em, I guess.

I'm curious to hear how you think Angel's love changed Collins. Can you give a few examples (I'm not trying to bait you here. I'm genuinely curious).

Well said, though, both Rose and Penguin and ByMySide. I've enjoyed discussing this today. On that note, I really am heading out. I'm gonna wail at the moon like a cat in heat!

---

Interesting, becuase i've always found Mimi to be a fascinating character. I saw some phenomenal actresses who nailed the different layers: tough, yet vulverable, with a sweetness despite her addictions. Mimi COULDN'T die because she didn't have her s**t together yet. I don't know, I think if any character seems shalow and one-dementional and boring, it's Joanne. That's what's so great aboutr RENT, we all see different things in these wonderful characters!

---

Hehe! I'm sorry!

It depends on who you see do the role as far as the kiss goes. More recent actors are awful together: quick peck, yadda yadda. Wilson and Jesse, on the other hand...I think you will *love* them in the film. They have the innocence and purity, but at the same time, they are FECKIN' HOT. That ICY kiss? Hoooo... *shudders with ecstasy* It's a good balance. If you watched the Opening Night A/C pairing and compare it to A/C pairings of today, it actually angers you: to see how much the portrayal has deteriorated. In my opinion, Wilson and Jesse are the only two who ever REALLY got it. Which is why I'm happy they're the movie pairing. They are ON FIRE together; their chemistry is OFF THE WALL, and they are INSANELY passionate: all over each other. A sneak peak:

https://www.forget-regret.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=45&pos=3

https://www.forget-regret.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=45&pos=2

Mmmm. Oh yeah.

That being said, the lack of groping is cool with me b/c I feel that Angel and Collins are basically beyond that. Not beyond passion, but beyond that firey adolescent attitude. So their air of purity works for me: they've been through the messy stuff and can enjoy the beauty of simplicity together.

I feel like Angel changed Collins by my opinion that in the beginning of the show, Collins is pretty jaded. Not exactly bitter, but in "Rent" (the song), you can tell he's kinda worn out, lonely. Then, when Angel dies, he has this...maturity about him. A resolution, almost. The way he breaks up the fight in Goodbye, Love with those words of wisdom is a big indicator for me. He's much more open. Again, it comes down to how you interpret it, but I noticed a difference, at least.

Enjoy your night out!

Updated On: 8/23/05 at 10:12 PM

And that is you stating an opinion. Please stop trying to pass that off as fact.

---

CJR.

LOL. I love you.

As well you should, my dear. As well you should

---

Not to be sarcastic, art, but I suppose, by your definition, that Jonathan Larson was then one of those libido liberals? After all, he's the one who wrote Angel as a drag queen, so, by your logic, he purposely tried to make Angel look like a girl to make sure that him kissing Collins wouldn't offend people.

And before you bring up the kiss that Angel gives him when they're in men's attire, there is no kiss between them, written in the script, where Angel is not in drag. Normally the actors just do it if they want to during Without You. All scripted kisses occure while Angel is dressed up.

I'm curious, is that what you think? Isn't it possible for someone to just be a drag queen without having some ulterior motive that includes trying to appear heterosexual?

If Angel HADN'T been a drag queen and CC had changed that to make him so, you'd have an argument. But it sounds like your complaint lies with the actual original content of Rent itself, and its writer, JL. Hollywood isn't doing anything wrong here, it's just making his material into a movie. Instead of the Rent trailer being homophobic, it sounds like you believe Rent ITSELF is homophobic. Is that the case?

Updated On: 8/24/05 at 08:47 PM

Oooo, I knew it would come back to "libido liberals" eventually. How exciting.

---

Here ya go, YouWantItWhen????; I specialize in penguins AND first aid :0)

---

I've stated all along that the best way to determine if a double standard exists is to compare and contrast. After viewing the trailer, I was left in no doubt that the love relationship between the two men was something the studio didn't want to go into. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to make a deduction based on simple observations. You might hate me for saying it but it has to be said.