I absolutely hated "Caroline, or change" last night.....- Page 3

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:09pm

She sang the hell out of it the night I saw it. Not one problem.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:09pm

I saw a very, very early preview - but she also had no vocal problems.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:12pm

I bet if she were a Japanese photographer the show would have been a hit.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:13pm

NOt to turn this into my own personal "Idina Menzel can do ANYTHING" fest, but can anyone else not wait for Audra to become age-appropriate enough to play Caroline?
I guess it COULD come off a tad too legit but I'd survive.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:13pm

It could be difficult for a lot of people to accept a protagonist who's quite unlikable. How do you feel her pain when you want to slap her? It's complex and takes work on the part of each audience member.

Updated On: 10/12/06 at 03:13 PM

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:15pm

Dangit singer. I thought you were gonna suggest Idina as Caroline. There's some inspired casting.

Slam down the iron!
Slam down the iron!
FLAT!
FLAT
FLAT!
FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-eeee-oooooo-uuuuuu-yeah-yeah-yeah-AAT!

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:17pm

I don't need to see Audra. I think Tonya was effing perfection.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:19pm

I'd just like to hear Audra sing it is all. I really do think Tonya inhabited that role to 100% satisfaction.

oh, and to chime in, I saw it a few weeks before the Tonys and Tonya was in fiiiiiine voice.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:19pm

I saw it early September after the Tonys. She rocked it.

[kidmanboy]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:25pm

I have to say, I agree with the majority of posters that this show is a masterpiece and is on the very short list of best musicals ever written. It is SO specific and personal that I couldn't help but be moved by it.
As for Ms. Pinkins' performance, I thought it was the writing that truly shined until I saw a production of the show in Boston which made me sorely miss Pinkins' take on the role. She was a lot more dynamic than people gave her credit for. She may have always been angry, but there were loud bursts of anger, and soft anger, and complete dispair. A truly amazing performance. For that matter the Boston production made me miss the entire NY ensemble, especially Chandra Wilson, Veanne Cox and Anika Noni Rose.

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:38pm

I think your assessment of the "change" part of the story is a bit simplistic, lil. I always thought it was about either being "caroline" or being able to change along with the country. She has such an inbred mistrust of others, especially white people, that she is unable to enjoy her own life.

I think Kushner is trying to make a point about segregation; opposition came from both sides. Caroline fears the freedom that her daughter hungers for and finds solace in the little things in life because that's all she feels she deserves.

The social experiments with the black and white dolls and the chidren who choose "the good doll" come to my mind. Caroline has been taught to devalue herself and not make trouble.

But the entrance of the new stepmother who IS a progressive person and is willing to give Caroline the freedom she's been denied is regarded with suspicion as is her child's new-found voice of dissension. She struggles to find her place in this rapidly changing world, and in "Lot's Wife," we see a woman so damaged she simply wants to be destroyed and re-created, which also alludes to Joe Pitt's (AIA) desire for god to smash him into pieces and start over again.

That being said, I'm sorry you didn't like it.

[DG]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:43pm

Good for you, lil - that was as good a brief analysis as I've seen of the piece.

[kidmanboy]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:53pm

I have to say, I also don't really understand where the criticism that the score is not musically satisfying comes from. I think that much of the music is derived from the American Pop idiom and is gloriusly tuneful while also containing as much, if not more, emotion and subtext as the lyrics.

[Danielm]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:54pm

Beautifully said lildogs.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:58pm

I understand the music is derived from American Pop of 1963, but it isnt distinctive...which makes it a problem for me. I liked it alot more in the theater, but kept wanting SOMEONE to finish the damn theme in the music, or complete a song. I find this even more annoying listening to the cd. The music is fine, just not special to me. I enjoy the performances more than anything else.

The lyrics, on the other hand, are amazing and true.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 4:00pm

I loved the score in the theater. However, I don't understand just having it on CD. Unless you sit and LISTEN and relive the experience of being in the theater, why would you? It's not exactly background music.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 4:06pm

I do that all the time (an almost 2 hour commute will do that) and still have to make my self listen.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 4:09pm

Yeah but you're a freak.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 4:10pm

The freakiest!

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 4:33pm

Dangit singer. I thought you were gonna suggest Idina as Caroline. There's some inspired casting.

Slam down the iron!
Slam down the iron!
FLAT!
FLAT!
FLAT!
FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-eeee-oooooo-uuuuuu-yeah-yeah-yeah-AAT!

LMAO.

It'd be more like:

Slam down the iron!
Slam down the iron!
*GASP*
Flat!
*gasp*
Flat!
*gasp*
Flat!
*GASP*
FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-eeee-oooooo-uuuuuu-yeah-yeah-yeah-AAT!
ooooo-eeeee-ooooooooh!
*GASP*

Updated On: 10/12/06 at 04:33 PM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 4:37pm

And it'd be flat.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 4:39pm

sho' nuff.

[Plum]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 4:42pm

I'm sorry you didn't like the show, lee. It does have a pretty unconventional arc- the whole idea is that the main character can't change. She isn't as free as Dottie to go with the times because she has her kids to take care of. Her accomplishment over the course of the show is not a psychological revelation, but the upbringing of a new generation, which is why Emmie gets the last word.

"I'm the daughter/ Of a maid. She stands alone/ Where the harsh winds blow. Salting the earth/ So nothing grow too close/ but still her strong blood flow..."

[ICEcreamAssassin]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 4:59pm

I didn't get to see this on broadway but it came to LA with the original cast (except for Dottie) and it was abosuletly amazing. Tonya was perfect and the whole theatre was in awe. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it. It such a wonderfully layered piece of theatre. I wish I could be in the UK just see it.

[rflpfl2]

Posted: 10/12/06 at 5:22pm

This is my all time favorite contemporary musical EVER. And I think the tough, ugly, heartbreaking nature of the show is something that makes it special.

LIL the change wasn't just about change in the country and change in the kids pocket- it's about how to change- what change means- and the pressure to change. It's truly heart breaking to watch Caroline suffer- to remain Caroline and NOT change so that her kids can grow and be part of the larger change. To me Caroline can't change- she has to stay down so her children can rise and grow- and that's her real struggle. I always felt that the epilogue brings this round full circle (well maybe that's not the way to describe it)- but that we see that Emmie rises and that statue topples and there is change in the future for the world, and for Caroline through her children.

Really this show is so beautiful- I get the chills when I think of it.