Is RENT 100% Larson?- Page 3

[Winston3]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 1:44pm

I found via a google search an interview that Slate Magazine (an online culture magazine owned by the Washington Post) did with Schulmann. They do talk to her about her and Rent and she said things that just rubbed me the wrong way. She said that it was basically wrong for Larson to have treated the characters that are a racial minority ( Angel, Collins, Joanne) no different then anyone else. I think that by saying this she totally missed the mark on what Rent is supposed to be about. It's supposed to show everyone of different backrounds being treated as equals.

Also I just get the impression from her and the way that she has conducted herself during the plagiarism case was that she felt that there was no other way on god's green earth that Larson could have gotten the ideas from someone else. I have done a fair amount of reading on this case from different articles from different places. And, not once have I heard Schulmann talk about Rent being based off of Puccini's opera. She was treating it as if it was based on her novel or bust. And, when she lost I think that she was a sore looser on the subject and could have handled the defeat in a more mature way.

[fromthecity]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 4:54pm

K, I love me some RENT as much as the next guy - but really what in it could possibly seem plagiarized from this novel? I haven't read the novel, nor has anybody posted specific instances of plagiarism by RENT - but honestly, the plot of RENT does not seem complicated or intricate enough for any of it to be seen as anything more than a coincidence.

Most art has essentially already been done in another form, or told in another way before. And especially the basic RENT story structure - gay couple with AIDS, girl acting on her homosexuality and leaving her boyfriend, straight junkie couple with AIDS - there's no way anybody can "own" those character types or situations.

Unless the characters in the book are a stripper, washed up rocker, documentary filmmaker, performance artist, lawyer, etc. I really don't see the case.

[Plum]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 5:15pm

I can't speak to this particular case, but while no one owns individual ideas, if you see too many of the ideas from an old work used in the same way by a new work, there's a good case to be made for at least subconscious plagiarism. Copyright has a low originality threshold, but it does have one. There's really no point in letting Larson off the hook (or condemning him) without actually reading both works in question.
Updated On: 1/1/09 at 05:15 PM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 5:22pm

Since you didn't link it, Winston, I guess I will: http://www.slate.com/id/2131017/

[fromthecity]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 11:03pm

Right, after reading that article - how can anybody think that's legitimate at all? A love triangle with two lesbians and a straight guy - and she claims it's taken from her book and thus her life.

It's utterly ridiculous. She's just another selfish lesbian. Maybe that's the one connection she does have to the characters in RENT.

[Winston3]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 11:25pm

Also, I highly doubt knowing Larson's past that he would just rip off someone like that. If you remember the story of Superbia it would show you that he wouldn't really rip someone off.

He originally wanted to write a rock musical of Orwell's 1984 and have it be set in the future. He wrote a letter to the Orwell estate and when they said no he drastically changed it and he altered what he had and wrote some new material and that became Surpebia. I find it far fetched that Larson would write a musical based on a book and not at least attempt to get permission. It just seems strange to me that he would do it once with Orwell's 1984 and not do it again a second time.

Also, fromthecity I do agree with you that Schulmann's reason ( which I am sure is one of many she has) of why her novel is like Rent is ridiculous. I don't see how a love triangle with two lesbians and a straight guy equals what happens in Rent. Where Mark who is straight went out with Maureen who left Mark and is now going out with Joanne.

I can however see a connection with Mark, Maureen, and Joanne in La Boheme however. Marcello went out with Musetta who is a flirt. I find that Maureen's realtionship with Joanne to be the modern example of her being a flirt. Also, Schulmann never realized that musicals have always been based on other things. Yes, Rent was based on something. It was based on Boheme but it wasn't based on her book.

[gypsy4]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 11:33pm

I'm sorry but Rent is overated.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 11:34pm

You don't have to be sorry (not that I think you were anyway).

[gypsy4]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 11:40pm

well is it really the show that was famous or was it because of the daeth of Jonathan Larson that made its fame?

[Annas_Priest]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 11:50pm

STOP.

All of you. I find it funny that you guys talk like you know everything about a subject. I think that the Tony committee, or the PULLIZER Committee would have noticed this. Its just people who want their piece of a pie that they do not deserve. Greedy people.

[Winston3]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 11:52pm

I don't think that Rent would have been able to play for 12 years riding on the death of Larson. I think that what drew people to the show was the story and the message. Keep in mind that when it opened downtown it became a very hard ticket to get. So much so that there were people sitting on the floor to see the show. Any show that is moving from Off Broadway to Broadway need backers and there clearly were enough people interested in the show to back it for a move uptown. And, I know that you might not like the example that I am about to give. But, there were tons of fangirls during Rent's later years that did feel some connection with the show. Otherwise they wouldn't have gone back a bunch of times to see it. Keep in mind that if you asked anyone of these fangirls who wrote the damn thing they wouldn't be able to give you an answer. I think that it has touched them in some way and by them not knowing who wrote it only shows that the show itself has touched people without knowing who Larson was or that he died before ever getting to see his work.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 11:55pm

Ladies and gentlemen, those of you who repeat the tried and true stories of Lynn Thomson and Sarah Schulman should also look into Steve Wishnoff (sp?). Trust me on this.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 11:58pm

It's utterly ridiculous. She's just another selfish lesbian. Maybe that's the one connection she does have to the characters in RENT.

That is a completely homophobic statement.

Ladies and gentlemen, those of you who repeat the tried and true stories of Lynn Thomson and Sarah Schulman should also look into Steve Wishnoff (sp?). Trust me on this.

Trust you on this?

On what? The fact that you don't know how to spell the person's name?

OK, I trust you.

[blaxx]

Posted: 1/2/09 at 12:01am

I think that the Tony committee, or the PULLIZER Committee would have noticed this.

I've won two PULLIZERS and they never notice anything!

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 1/2/09 at 12:04am

The spelling of the name is immaterial considering people think she's "Lynn Thompson". I'm telling you, look into Steve Wishnoff or someone of a similar name, and an outline for a modern La Boheme that resembled a much more successful show that came later.

[commasplice]

Posted: 1/2/09 at 12:10am

"She's just another selfish lesbian."

You realize that with statements like that, you're just asking for a blinking sign that says "ignorant twit" to be displayed over your head?

At least TRY to understand the issue and rather than merely judging it from one non-comprehensive interview and some posts on an internet message board. There's more to Schulman's issue with the love triangle than just what's said there; it's not an in-depth interview where every detail can be outlined, just major topics (and I would go into more detail if I could remember specifics beyond that). If you are honestly interested in this and want to do more than write off Schulman as a "selfish lesbian," read Stagestruck, and you can get her POV more completely and weigh in with a more informed opinion.

Schulman is not saying that Rent is based on her book, so it's not really the same thing as Larson and Orwell. She is saying that parts of her novel were used in Rent. I've never seen her deny the relationship between Rent and La Boheme.

Anyway, when in doubt, go to the source: I just bought a used copy of People in Trouble off Amazon. To be continued.

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 1/2/09 at 12:19am

I'm holding off on making any commentary, since I haven't read either Stagestruck or People in Trouble (I am searching for them), however I did want to point out the irony in fromthecity's use of an incredibly homophobic and rude comment about someone when we are discussing a musical that basically preaches acceptance of everyone.

[commasplice]

Posted: 1/2/09 at 12:24am

gvendo, fixed the typo with Thomson's name -- read my source wrong.

Anyway, I searched for this Steven Winshoff's name (no quotes) with "La Boheme" (in quotes) on Google and the only result I got was a previous post you made on BWW mentioning his name. (Googling Lynn Thompson and Rent, at the very least, brings up results for both the incorrect and correct spelling of the name.) You're going to need to be a little more precise if you want people to look into it.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 1/2/09 at 12:26am

That's as precise as I can get. Wishnoff, unlike others, never made a big deal about it. But from what I'm told, this outline was Rent to a T, down to the characters, in many spaces.

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 1/2/09 at 12:34am

gvendo2005-
Unless you can provide *something* more than this, I'm gonna call BS.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 1/2/09 at 12:39am

gvendo2005, never become a lawyer.

Or a student, for that matter.

[Plum]

Posted: 1/2/09 at 1:08am

I think that the Tony committee, or the PULLIZER Committee would have noticed this.

You think awards committees run plagiarism checks? Tell that to Doris Kearns Goodwin. (I love No Ordinary Time, but facts are facts in her case.) Of course they don't freaking check for plagiarism - they trust that the artists they're dealing with are honorable, and they're mostly busy actually assessing the relative merits of the works they're thinking about rewarding. Being award-winning is no defense against plagiarism accusations. Only being original is.

[Manny2]

Posted: 1/2/09 at 1:18am

Of course they don't run plagiarism checks!

Otherwise, Mili Vanili would have never won the Grammy. :)