Is RENT 100% Larson?- Page 2

[exedore]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 9:25am

"Female To Female" was a pair of songs in Act One where Maureen and Joanne were setting up in the lot and Maureen was freaking out because she left some of the cables she needed at home and was forgetting her lines, etc. and being a general bitch to Joanne. This gets Joanne out of the scene, Mark stumbles by, and he and Maureen sang "Over It" (later Mark would sing this with Joanne, which transitions to the Tango).

The song that was so horrible that TMOLM replaced was called "Love Of My Life" which had such great lines as "You're the Yankees to my Dodgers/You're the Postman with a gun to my Roy Rogers", "I can never get through to your head/And for you I have cried and I've bled/You're a wonk and a snob but in bed/You're the love of my life", and the infamous "Out of bed we just quibble and bicker and fight over nonsense like who wears the dildo tonight." Copies of LoML surfaced a few years ago in the fandom when someone got ahold of the audition tapes that were given to potential cast in the OOBC.

[Feathah]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 9:38am

The Off Bway run at NYTW is extremely similiar to what it is now on Broadway. The huge differences are between the workshop and the first official run. Another person that helped shape the show and change it is director Michael Greif.

Here's the workshop version of the script with all the old songs:
http://libretto.musicals.ru/text.php?textid=284&language=1

[ashley0139]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 10:23am

Wait- I thought I had it, but I just got confused again. There was an original workshop in 1994 at NYTW? And then in 1996 there was an off-Broadway run also at NYTW? Then Jonathan Larson died just before dress rehearsals of the 1996 Off-Broadway run? And then the show transfered to Broadway.

Was the cast the same in the very first workshop? Probably not, right?

[MusicAndPassion]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 10:31am

No, it is not 100% fully his work. There were problems, concerns and changes during the production of the musical. He rewrote the script four times I believe, and the final outcome was never what he intended it to be. He did die before it reached Broadway, with the full Original Broadway Cast. He did die before it opened Off-Broadway, and there were no Broadway intentions.

It's all the the book people call "The Rent Bible". Read it.

[Patronus]

Posted: 10/9/05 at 10:52am

The image I have added is from the poster art promoting the workshop in 1994.

A friend of mine actually saw the Workshop after having Jonathan wait on him at Moondance Diner in NYC where he was working at the time.

The cast at the 1994 NYTW Workshop version of Rent was different than the 1996 NYTW run. The 1996 cast was the OBC.

The 1994 cast was:

Anthony Rapp as Mark
Tony Hoylen as Roger
Daphne Rubin-Vega as Mimi
Pat Briggs as Collins
Mark Setlock as Angel
Shelley Dickinson as Joanne
Saran Knowlton as Maureen
Michael Potts as Benny
Erin Hill as Blockbuster Rep

Ensemble:
Gilles Chiasson, Deidre Boddie-Henderson, Sheila Kay Davis, John Lathan, Jesse Sinclair Lenat
Updated On: 10/9/05 at 10:52 AM

[StageWhore]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 1:55am

does anyone know where i could get a hold of the NYTW songs? i mean, i can find the script without a problem, but i'd like to actually hear it.

[enjolrasissex]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 3:32am

That 'Splatter' song is kinda creepy. "If I slid the bars back/hurled my body through the cracked glass on some crackhead's cardboard bed/Maureen could kick my frozen frame/and shout my name and then drop dead!"

I don't get it.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 8:25am

Orangekittles wrote: "ETA: There have been other lawsuits, like that lesbian writer that claimed Jonathan Larson stole the plotline from her book."

That "lesbian writer" you refer to is the well-respected playwright Sarah Schulman, who was profiled in the NY Times Arts and Leisure section last week. (She's not fond of being referred to as "that lesbian writer.")

Sarah Schulman's 1990 novel People in Trouble DID have many similarities with the atmosphere and non-Boheme aspect of the story of Rent, and her writing was very well known in the 1990s East Village/AIDS activist world Larson traveled in.

She wisely chose NOT to sue, but you can read her side of the story (which is compelling) in her 1998 collection of essays Stagestruck: Theater, AIDS, and the Marketing of Gay America (amazon.com link below).

But she did NOT sue.
Stagestruck: Theater, AIDS, and the Marketing of Gay America

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 8:56am

I think Schulman had an excellent case. The similarities she points out are far too specific to be coincidental.

Lawsuits have been won on much less evidence. PJ, Why do you say she was smart not to sue?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 9:02am

1) Her lawyer talked her out of it.

2) Had she won, she'd have forfeited her right to complain. And complain. And complain.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 11:14am

FindingNamo, I'm with you.

PalJoey, I've read what she wrote and I don't think she's worthy of my respect.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 11:58am

Orange--did you read Stagestruck or her original novel, People in Trouble? (amazon link below)

And, yes, Namo, I should also have pointed out that her spiky, argumentative nature was ALSO well-known in the 1990s East Village/AIDS activist world.

People in Trouble

Updated On: 11/11/05 at 11:58 AM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 12:15pm

PalJoey, I read Stagestruck because I was interested in what her arguments were. I stand by my previous statements.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 12:38pm

Well, if read the novel, you will get a lot of insight into the world and times that Sarah, Jonathan, Namo and I lived in.

Even better, read Sarah's 1988 first novel--After Delores--which has a loopy humor Sarah never really recaptured.

[Carl Magnum]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 12:58pm

What percentage of the show would you say is Sondheim? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Sondheim help Larson with some rewrites in the music?

[kitkatt456]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 1:44pm

I actually love some of the songs from the NYTW, "You're a Fool", "He Says" and "You'll Get Over It" I wish they would rerecord some of them.

[erinrebecca]

Posted: 11/11/05 at 2:56pm

Sondheim was a mentor to Larson but no, he did not help with re-writes.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 12/31/08 at 9:45pm

I'm bumping this thread because I find the discussion fascinating.

[Manny2]

Posted: 12/31/08 at 10:06pm

I find it pointless.

Larson died the night after the first preview.
There were no productinos between 94 and 96 (both of which are radically different because he changed them greatly).
This was a chick was indeed the dramaturg, but she did not come up with the story (as she claimed).

That's that.

[roseaddams]

Posted: 12/31/08 at 11:22pm

He didn't die after the first preview. Larson died the night after the final dress rehearsal.

Here's a linear chronology (the info is mixed and piecemeal in the thread)

1994 -- original off-Broadway workshop run of RENT at NYTW
1996 -- second off-Broadway run, heavily edited from initial workshop and almost identical to eventual Broadway run

Larson died the night after the final dress rehearsal, before the first public preview of the show off-Broadway. The show transferred to the Nederlander three months later, in April of 1996.

[commasplice]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 12:25am

"This was a chick was indeed the dramaturg, but she did not come up with the story (as she claimed)."

The "chick's" name was Lynn Thomson, and she did not claim that; she claimed that she made significant contributions to the version that was eventually staged at NYTW and, of course, later moved to Broadway (which she did; she didn't claim that she did all of the work or even the majority of it, but that she helped contribute changes that overhauled the '94 draft of the show into something producible, something that the judge acknowledged in his court decision).

Sarah Schulman is the one who claims Larson took elements of her novel People in Trouble and used them in Rent.

I haven't read People in Trouble yet (it's on the to-read list; just need to get back to the library that I know has it), but I did read Stagestruck last year. For those unfamiliar, it's essentially a triptych; the first part outlines her case and recounts her struggle to get her story on the matter heard by the media, the second part discusses the role of Rent in comparison to works by Larson's gay and ethnically diverse contemporaries, and the third part talks about the role of homosexuality and AIDS in advertising and the consequences of particular marketing strategies towards certain markets (keep in mind that this was also published ten years ago, so that last section is dated, but it's also interesting cultural criticism).

Schulman's tone in the first part of the book (the one that deals with Rent) is unfortunate -- at times, it's as if she's trying to word it like a gossip column, which was a poor choice on her part. I think that she makes some interesting points, but again, her tone really doesn't help her and makes her occasionally irritating (especially, I imagine, if the reader is already predisposed not to believe her). One of the things that still sticks out to me about the first part is a story she was told by Michael Korie, who was sitting next to Larson at some sort of awards dinner (sorry, can't remember exact details at this point) and talking with him; when Larson told Korie about the show he was working on, Korie said that it sounded like Schulman's novel, and Larson said yes, he had read it, and that he was using it. There are some things like that she identifies that are, at the very least, quite curious. I have a feeling, though, that her arguments register better if you've read her novel. (Whether or not that's true, I'll find out when I read People in Trouble.)

Honestly, I think the book is worth reading for the second part, regardless of how you feel about Schulman; it's fascinating to read comparisons with works that were/are contemporaneous with Rent and discussions of themes within those works, and for me it helped articulate some of the things about Rent that have bothered me (at least, this is what the little mini-review I wrote for myself a year ago after I read the book claims).

Updated On: 1/2/09 at 12:25 AM

[Winston3]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 1:05am

I remember reading an article from the Times that talked about the situation between Rent and People In Trouble. The article talked about how someone at NYTW did bring the book to Larson's attention one day while Larson was doing some work there and the guy talked about how Larson's reaction was a " huh that's interesting" type approach to the novel rather then anything major. Larson had said himself that it was Bill Arnason's idea to do a rock version of La Bohem and when Larson wanted to make the project his own Arnoson agreed and Larson wrote out a deal with him that should the project make it to Broadway Arnoson would be fairly compensated.

If I recall correctly there really weren't that many changes made to Rent between its run at NYTW and its move to the Nederlander. Any changes that were made were made by mixing and matching bits of Rent that Larson had already written. So it wasn't as if someone random came in and re wrote changes between the off Broadway and Broadway run of the show.

I just went back and read the Rent coffee table book and it spoke about how the creative team decided to keep Rent pretty much as is as a tribute to Larson. And, it spoke about how they could have gotten someone in as a ghostwriter to do it but they decided against it.

[commasplice]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 1:30am

"The article talked about how someone at NYTW did bring the book to Larson's attention one day while Larson was doing some work there and the guy talked about how Larson's reaction was a " huh that's interesting" type approach to the novel rather then anything major."

Do you know who the person was? Because in addition to the story Korie related to Schulman, Linda Chapman (who works at NYTW, so it might be her you're thinking of) has gone on record saying that she gave Larson a copy of the novel to read (though Chapman also says that this was some time after the major elements of the musical had been established and drafted, so she doesn't believe it's plagiarized; FWIW, she also has a long-standing professional relationship with Schulman). I think it's safe to say that Larson was definitely aware of the novel (at the very least); we'll just never know exactly when it happened and/or to what extent he was, since it's all hearsay and memory at this point.

(I just think this whole thing is fascinating.)
Updated On: 1/1/09 at 01:30 AM

[Winston3]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 1:51am

I don't remember who the person was. I did get the impression that when Larson did look at the book he kind of shrugged it off as not a big deal. I think if I remember correctly he found out about the book after most of the plot of Rent was done. Not the full blown show mind you but the basic plot. Which of course was played around with between the original off Broadway reading and the Broadway production.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 1/1/09 at 4:28am

I love Sarah Schulmann's writing and STAGESTRUCK is one of the most inspiring pieces of writing I have ever read. I think it really did change the way I see things when I read it in a Queer Theory course that I took during my undergrad. Unfortunately, it also made me feel so much disregard for RENT which was a show that I used to enjoy. After reading STAGESTRUCK, I developed an animosity against the show.
I also read PEOPLE IN TROUBLE and I must say that I side with Schulmann in the argument, although TROUBLE is far more political, revolutionary, and interesting than RENT could hope to be.
We'll never really know the true though.